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Maple leaf buckings (& why you should use them)

124255 Views 160 Replies 50 Participants Last post by  FartinLutherKing
Hey guys,

There seems to be a lot of confusion about all the different variants of maple leaf buckings, which one is the best, what do you need to use one, what's the difference, etc.

So, I've made a video to explain it once and for all 馃榿


For those who don't like the audiovisual explanation, here's the write-up containing pretty much the same info.

Maple leaf buckings have a concave contact patch rather than a traditional hopup mound. This is the same principle as an R-hop, more contact surface = more backspin + more consistency.

VSR buckings

I'm going to cover VSR buckings first, as the whole story mostly applies to VSR buckings. Maple leaf essentially makes two types of buckings: the delta variant and the diamond variant. To further complicate things, there are the old buckings (called diamond & delta buckings) and there are the new buckings (called autobot and decepticon). This image basically covers them all:

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The difference is in the shape of the contact patch. While they are all concave, the delta patches have a triangle shape which ends in a single point. So the last contact with the bb is a single point. The diamond is split in the end and therefore has two contact points, which is more consistent and thus more accurate (theoretically). My personal experience also tells me the same. However, the delta has more contact area than the diamond because the patch is not split, so it could lift heavier bb's with the same fps. That being said, they both have concave patches and both can produce plenty enough lift, so I would say the diamond version is the best one :tup:

The difference between the old and the new buckings is not that great. The new ones have an anti-blow ring and are made of a different rubber, that's pretty much it. However, the new ones seem to wear a lot faster from what I've seen. I don't know if that's due to the different rubber, but I personally prefer the old one (the diamond one). If that's not available, then I would opt for the autobot instead.

Things to keep in mind

Now that we've discussed buckings, I should mention something you need to use this bucking (any of the VSR ML buckings): you will need an open, non-bridged barrel window. Which looks like this:

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This is because the patch runs all the way to the back of the bucking, so it won't fit over a bridged barrel. If you have a bridged barrel, you can always file it off. If you don't have a barrel yet, I would recommend buying an action army VSR barrel, those are unbridged :tup:

The next thing you'll need along with any maple leaf bucking is a concave nub. M-nubs and flat nubs also work, but the concave is best since it applies the most even pressure. Maple leaf makes concave nubs. When used in a VSR however, this is a problem, as the VSR chamber won't accept aftermarket nubs. This can be solved by buying an AA chamber (one of the many advantages) which simply accepts aftermarket nubs.

If you don't want an AA chamber for whatever silly reason, then you can also opt for the special arm ML makes for the VSR chamber. This replaces the stock arm. They do suffer from poor quality control though, so it's a bit of a gamble whether you get a good arm. The AA chamber really is the best option (as usual) :hehe:

Different platforms

If you don't have a VSR however, then you can't use a VSR AA chamber. If you have a type 96, then you can get the type 96 AA chamber, but that one takes AEG barrels and buckings. Fortunately, maple leaf also makes AEG buckings!

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Unfortunately, for some silly reason, they only make AEG buckings in the "delta" variant. So you can't get the diamond patch if you're using an AEG ML. The delta is not as good as the diamond, it's more like a flat hop while a diamond is more like an R-hop. That being said, it's still pretty darn good, and your best bet if you're not going to do an actual R-hop.

The AEG ML bucking obviously also requires the ML concave nub. What it does not need however, is an unbridged barrel. The AEG ML bucking does fit on a bridged barrel. There aren't even any non-bridged AEG barrels for as far as I know anyway. So you don't need to worry about that if you're using the AEG version in a type 96.

If you're installing this in a DMR (with an AEG chamber) then it is pretty much the same case :tup:

If you have an L96 AWS instead, then you can also install the maple leaf. The L96 AWS takes VSR barrels/buckings, so you can use the diamond bucking along with a VSR barrel. Along with the ML nub, of course. I have described how to install that in the stock L96 AWS chamber here (it's pretty straightforward):

Upgrading an L96 AWS platform

The last common platform these can be installed into is the KJW M700. These also take VSR barrels and buckings, but not the nub (and chamber, obviously). Fortunately, the stock M700 nub is already concave, and works pretty well so far in the setup I'm currently using, so I would recommend just using the stock nub along with the ML bucking here :hehe:

You can even install the ML in TM-style pistols. Maple leaf makes a "key" which fits into the TM-style GBB chamber, allowing you to use these buckings in GBB pistols as well! Gotta love this company 馃檱

Bucking hardness

The last factor is the hardness of the bucking, measured in degrees. The lower the number, the softer the rubber, the higher the harder. Generally, for some reason, manufacturers recommend extremely hard buckings for high fps guns like the sniper rifles we use on this forum, such as 80 degrees. That is however, way too hard. I would personally never use any harder than 70 degree. Any harder, and you're really suffering accuracy, because the harder the rubber, the less grip you will have and the less consistent it will be. If you go softer than 70 degrees however, your bucking will start to wear out faster. 70 degrees last for a very long time however. Compare it to racing tyres, harder rubber = less grip but more durability. Softer rubber = more grip but wears out faster.

You can also go softer than 70 degrees. I personally like 60 degrees nowadays. You can expect a 60 degree maple leaf to last about 10k shots, which is still a lot. It's a tad more accurate than 70 degrees and has a bit more grip, but they will both work just fine. I would not however put 50 in a 500 fps gun as it will wear very quick and you may get airseal issues due to the soft rubber :hehe:

I think that covers everything! If you have any questions or remarks, be sure to post them here or just shoot me a PM :yup:

Cheers, :)
Reliku

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Yes, that seems to be the one. That bucking doesn't exactly look like the right one but if it's indeed the "monster" bucking for the VSR then it will be the diamond version. If it's the delta bucking then it's specifically advertised as such :tup:
That looks like it would work, yes :tup:

The nub is pretty hard to find generally. I don't know why, but they're always sold out for some reason :hehe:

EDIT: The one Plazma linked is indeed the correct one. But they're essentially the same. The blue nub is a bit softer than the black one though, so the black one is preferred, but both will work ;)
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I prefer the old diamond yes, it's the most consistent one in my experience.

I haven't seen any performance from the R-hop that was really outstandingly better than the maple leaf. Then again, I haven't done an awful lot of R-hops myself either. But then again, I haven't encountered other people with R-hops who were more accurate than a maple leaf. And while it's possible that I just suck at doing R-hops, it would be a little far fetched to state that all those people I've compared to also had poor R-hops.

R-hop does have more contact surface though, so theoretically, it is better, especially when it comes to heavy (really heavy) bb's. But my personal opinion is that they're pretty similar in terms of performance :tup:
Like Whale says, hard nubs only work in applications where only a little pressure is needed, such as with R-hops or maple leafs. If you put a hard nub on a normal bucking then it won't yield when the bb passes underneath which is obviously no good. It can lead to jams and it is less consistent because the nub's shape doesn't follow the bb's shape.

However, with a concave nub/bucking, this is not the case. You only need a very tiny amount of pressure and the concave nub already has the shape of the bb. Therefore hard nubs do work with R-hops and maple leafs, but not so well with normal buckings :tup:

The nub I use in my M700 is actually a solid nub :hehe:
Metal nubs are mostly used to lift very heavy bb's yes, durability is the same. Nubs don't wear out :hehe:

But no, I wouldn't say there's a real benefit when using normal bb's. Using super heavy bb's however, the metal nub is able to apply more pressure because it doesn't deform like a rubber nub. But they obviously get pinch jams a lot sooner if you're not careful :yup:
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Yes. But you'd have to turn it all the way down.

All types of hopup can get a pinch jam if you apply too much force, which usually happens if you try to lift bb's that are too heavy for your hopup/fps to handle. It doesn't really happen with the maple leafs during normal use because they can generate plenty of lift in 500 fps guns, but it will happen if you try to lift a .45 bb with 300 fps, for example :hehe:

But generally speaking, nothing to worry about :tup:
Buy any other brand VSR barrel such as a PDI one and it will be bridged. But the only reason to get a bridged barrel is if you want to do an R-hop or flat-hop. I would just use a maple leaf if I were you :tup:
I already gave you some comments on youtube :hehe:

but you missed the other option: for AEG use (and that includes the most popular L96s chambers) you can go with Maple Leaf Hybrid buckings, which fit in AEG chambers but using Maple Leaf GBB inner barrels. Haven't tried that option yet (I'm a GBB guy p) but theoretically it should work great.锘
That's true, those do work, but they don't align as well in AEG chambers because an AEG-specific chamber is built to lock down the barrel and have the bucking lock over that. A non-AEG barrel can't be locked down in such a chamber as well.

This is also why VSRs are yet again better. The barrel is locked down AND the bucking is locked down seperately ;)

I don't think the Maple Leaf hop up arm have QC issues, afaik it is purposely designed with oversized side tabs that must be filed down to perfectly suit your chamber, as the VSR chambers tolerances (specially in the many, many clones) are all over the place.锘
I don't think that is the case as I have seen entirely off-center arms while others were just fine & straight. That's QC if you ask me :hehe:
That's the right nub.

As for the bucking, that depends on what gun you have. There are many guns out there that all look like what the British call "L96" but internally they're different. Do you have a type 96 or an L96 AWS?
That's a type 96. Don't get the ASP chamber. It's a poor choice, it has lots of play, needs modification to work, doesn't accept aftermarket nubs and airseal is sub par. The AA type 96 chamber is better :tup:

But yes you will need an aftermarket chamber to upgrade a type 96.

Also, don't get a madbull black python. They're coated aluminium barrels, and they're very weak. I broke one once by tightening the screws on the chamber :doh:

Get the madbull steel bull barrel instead, same price range, a lot stronger and the surface finish is even better because it's not coated :tup:

In addition to that, I would get a 6.03x407mm barrel, not a 509, 509 will be too long unless you aim to shoot no heavier than .3g bb's :yup:

But to answer your actual question, you will need bucking #1 to go along with that :tup:
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407 will work well with .4 and the stock cylinder. You can just keep the stock outer barrel, just drill out the end cap to 8mm or so :tup:

That fps rating by maple leaf doesn't make sense. Never use harder than 70 degrees, 75 or 80 doesn't have any advantages and just offers less grip. 70 degrees is good. You may even want to get 60 for better performance (it'll wear faster though) :tup:
Not very well. The dangerwerx arms are not concave, just like the stock arm, so they don't apply even pressure over the bucking, which would lead to a loss in backspin overall, more wear, less consistency and possibly curving issues.

I will always recommend an AA chamber to go with it. If you don't want an AA chamber, then the maple leaf arm is a solution, however I personally prefer just shaving the fangs off the stock arm and making my own flat nub to go over it. It's by far the cheapest option and while not as good as an AA chamber with a concave nub, it's much better than a stock or dangerwerx arms. Those are just made for different buckings :yup:
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In that case, stick with the stock arm, file the fangs off and add your own DIY flat nub out of a chunk of pencil eraser. Do a TDC mod and you'll be golden. That's a much better option than trying to modify an ASP/dangerwerx arm to be honest :tup:
What fps are you using? You're describing a pinch jam. It happens when you apply too much hopup or sometimes when you use a bucking that's too hard. Apply less hopup and it should work.

At one point applying more hopup decreases fps. A decrease in fps means you need more backspin. That means you need more downforce which even further reduces the fps which only makes it worse. Turn your hopup all the way OFF, and then start shooting by applying a bit more and more hop each time. You will need a lot less force with the maple leaf then you would with the W-hold, but if you apply too much hopup you will get a pinch jam in any setup eventually :hehe:

With a 60 degree ML at 550 fps, .45 should not be a problem :tup:
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