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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone!

New user here and first thread ever, yay! I've been reading most of you guys for a long time, I'm more active via facebook groups, especially Long Range 6mm airsoft specialists, which is focusing on extreme long range (ELR). Some of you may recognize my projects descriptions listed below as they're pretty uncommon.
I've been testing Maple Leaf products for a few years, mainly in pistols, but I started testing and comparing them in snipers when MR-hop came out last year.
Today is a test review of the Decepticons and MR-Hop 2021 which haven't been reviewed yet, they're quite new to the market and there is very little informations available. Perfect opportunity to initiate the new models.
I'm always setting at 2 joules (465fps equivalent) for my comparisons and use BLS.45. It's meant to allow people from around the globe to replicate the experiences, no matter how much power their rifle can withstand. It's also a round value that's easy to remember.

Description of the rifle used for testing

A fully custom vsr platform, originally a 2nd hand JG Bar-10, now fitted on a T10 stock. Due to it's build quality which I think is next to perfect, I am testing specific parts individually to do comparisons. There is a quick description written below, but here is the complete one:

Externals

-T10 stock
-ML reinforced receiver steel screws
-JG original upper (his days are counted...)
-JG original cylinder and bolt knob (days counted too...)
-Action Army fluted barrel
-Action Army bolt lever (with o-ring)
-Maple Leaf scope rail with integrated blue bubble level (get the green one guys, blue is making it hard to see the bubble clearly)
-EdGI TDC for VSR
-EdGI Gate 190mm suppressor.

Internals

Hop-up/barrel:
-Action Army VSR hopup chamber (a must)
-PDI VSR 6,01x435mm with enlarged window (had Modify X-range before...)
-ML omega nub
-ML Decepticons 2021 85°, now ML MR-Hop 2021 85°

Internal supports:
-Stock chamber block with ML screws (ML CNC block doesn't work with T10 stock, had to switch back but kept the reinforced screws on:/)
-AA T10 cylinder guide rings

Power system:
-Wolverine Bolt Electro-pneumatic (undoubtedly the best power system for snipers)
-HPA battery
-SPEED pro regulator, high pressure edition (0-250 psi output)
-Wolverine 36'' air line
-Stock trigger unit fitted for Bolt

And countless anti-wobble mods, hair trigger setting... Makes for an excellent accuracy testing platform :yup:

New-gen?

I've had the chance to know the existence of all 3 models of Maple Leaf 2021 versions and their particularities before they were even announced, needless to say I got them as soon as they were released. 2021's were released in 2 steps, first the updated Transformers series during summer 2020, then the updated MR-hop, beginning of december 2020. Pretty new to the market.

What's actually going on with the new gen?

Main difference with 2021 update is material type, which is silicone instead of the iconic colorful rubber. Silicone need no warmup and grips the same, any weather, any shot. Autobot and Decepticons also gained internal lateral guides that were first introduced with Super and Wonder. They also got the tighter lips design, also introduced with Super/Wonder. There is also a minor change in degree ratings, the pink one is now red and 80° instead of 75°, and the black is now 85° instead of 80°. Green 50°? Nope, not for Transformers. However it was reintroduced with MR-Hop, good thing for people running low power setups. The external centering grooves are now a complete rectangle instead of two separated grooves, allowing more even deformation of the buckings.

First impressions

''Woah I can see the patch from outside!'' Yeah they're transparent, and I discovered that's an excellent feature for alignment in hopup chambers;you can use the triangular shape to center perfectly. They also feel like they have more structure than their hardness equivalent in rubber models and are way grippier. One can also relate how they grip to the barrel when installing.

Early findings

Remember I wrote the 2021 feel like they have more structure? Meanwhile, people were reporting leak issues with MR-hop and other ML, which they thought were coming from the lips. However I squeezed PTFE tape under the metal C-ring of a MR-60 and it was still leaking, but no air was coming from the magwell. Other option is a barrel/bucking leak. I took the chamber/barrel assembly alone and put it against the nozzle to do a compression test, the bucking was inflating like a balloon in the side groove of the AA chamber, until it was so inflated the bucking would lift from the barrel and let the air out. I tested with a 70° MR, same issue. PTFE wrap solved it, but that's quite annoying to still have leak issues after so many models released...
I was aware of this problem so this was the first thing I tried. To compare apples to apples I installed the Autobot 2021 60°. At very first try, 100% seal. No further mods required. It didn't inflate either, so it's a true drop-in part!

*Just to clarify, some people reported the 2021 versions, for example 60° is softer than the rubber 60°, false. The previous finding is an example, but also when pressed against each other, both will ''deform'' at the same rate. Moreover, the degree rating is based on Shore A durometer scale. The tool used to test doesn't know which material it's testing; if it reads 60°, no matter if the material is rubber, silicone or polyurethane, it's 60° hardness, period. Same thing for 70° and 80°, which I had in both version and could press against their equivalent. The rest about friction, elasticity, wear and tear are different topics and should not be mixed.

My answer to a periodic question: which one is best, Autobot or Decepticons?

As said before I've been reading here and I noticed one thing, the eternal debate about Autobot and Decepticons. Back in the days, Maple Leaf put a chart saying the Autobot is for greater range while Decepticons is for accuracy. Autobot claims hardly makes any sense, if the hopup is set for a flat trajectory, once the quits the barrel, its range will be determined by its own weight (gr), diameter (mm), joule value (J= half the mass (gr) X velocity squared(m/s) ) and backspin's speed (RPM).
Down range I never had success with any Diamond family buckings, which Autobot belongs to. Erratic fight, fliers, inconsistencies (bb goes either left or right, never centered), how could people still use them? And I tried all available hardnesses back then, no luck. Delta lines were the opposite, instant accuracy. I always recommended to avoid Autobot and use decepticons.
But what if 2021 was better in every points? I mean lateral guides, greater material, instant seal, easy alignment, give it another try and maybe it will outperform the decepticons...? Never been so wrong. Same erratic left-right pattern in the scope, total deception.
How about range claims? Both buckings, joules for joules, hop adjusted for .45, there was no difference, no flatter trajectory, no reduced drop... But the Autobot was utterly deceiving and unable to keep up with the Decepticon's results. I know I'm testing with an HPA rifle, it could have made sense back in the days due to the slightly bigger contact surface, resulting in less power loss, but now there is MR-hop. And it's not because I'm using and HPA system that I'm getting the results; if two spring rifles were tuned to exactly the same amount of joules, say 2,00 joules cause that's my setting, there would be no difference between both, and with my hpa rifle either. The bb has no memory of the gun it's been shot from and will behave according to physical parameters.
Final answer? Dig a big grave for all Autobots and related gimmick claims, burry them once and for good, and move on. There's a better world out there.

2021 specific content

We're finally here for the long awaited review of ML 2021 Decepticons and MR-hop. Looking to save time on explanations, I tested all available hardnesses and got the best results with 85°. I was on the opposite side before, running 50° MR-Hop in the sniper. Don't get youself fooled by the fact that 85 sounds extremely hard, the material is god knows how many times grippier than rubber. 85° is still more than acceptable; I can send .45's to the sky at 1,3 joule with my AAP-01. That's particularly interesting to know for finetuners and people running extreme power setups, a stupid grippy bucking will be too sensitive for hopup chamber's increment rates, that's completely useless. Thinking about my SRS when I installed the Bolt-M, the hopup sensitivity pretty much doubled at 2,00 joules; the SBA 80 previously requiring #4 adjustment to lift .45's now required #1,5. SBA 70 went from #3,5 to #1 and the 60 was skyrocketing at 0.

-Decepticons 85°

Settings: Again, I'm set at 2,00 joules and using .45's. Flat trajectory with very small upward curve towards the end.
Target: 8 1/2 X 11'' sheet of paper
Distance: 60 meters (or 200ft)
Shooting position: standing up (there is a lot of snow here bruh)
Wind: none
Temperature: -3°C
Shooter: me, of course
Results: 25/25 shots hit the target in a 4'' horizontal by 8'' vertical disposition. 1 low left shot caused by me, I tilted the rifle a bit left out of fatigue and I saw the bb curve. Anyway it was still on target, for a distance of 60m 2,00 joules and standing position, that's crazy impressive! As soon as I get used to the forum I'll include the sheet, meanwhile it's already available on the Long Range group mentionned earlier if you guys want to see it. I am also waiting on my Scopecam 4k to replace mine which got water damaged, RIP...
Personal conclusion:I was a S-hop/R-hop fan before, claiming their supremacy and blablabla... Although being skilled to install these I have never seen such a crazy tight spread. It's been amazing to watch the bb following the crosshairs shot after shot :tup:
Off record, the range I am testing at has a max distance of 100m, even back there it could easily hit someone from the first shot with proper drop compensation. Remember I'm using 2,00 joules power, which is relatively low compared to the rest of the world, yet reaching such a distance is effortless with this setup. How can it be any better? slight tendency to curve left, so I have to tilt to the right (issue solved: PDI window was unevenly dremeled by me and caused uneven support for the lateral guides of the bucking)...

-MR-Hop 85°
The MR-hop 85° test was a little botched, I didn't have my chrono with me that day I was short in time before sunset, it was -16° outside and since I changed the bucking and reg settings since last test, I can't simply assume it will still be at exactly 2,00 joules, however I set to roughly the same pressure I used with decepticons for 2,00 joules to get a rough idea; a tiny bit under 100 psi on the regulator. There was also too much snow to make a 60m paper sheet test, so I skipped to the 100m limit directly. Luckily there was no wind that day either, and the accuracy was just glorious! Just please don't discredit the 2021 MR-Hop review yet, conditions are far from ideal due to winter and I'm waiting on my runcam badly to really demonstrate how insanely accurate it is.
I can only say that I observed the vertical spread was definitely narrower and the horizontal spread ''seemed'' tighter as well; I'm not really sure if it's an illusion or true improvement of the horizontal spread, hard to tell without a side-by side target comparison... Anyway, I haven't seen many rifles shooting as accurate as this

Final thoughts and limits

-Both Decepticons 2021 and MR-Hop 2021 are extremely accurate and worth considering.
-Cold-bore shot claim is true; first shot, all the following, last shot... Exact same lift. That's even true for extreme temperature variations, trajectory remains the same, excellents new for us snipers.
-4''x 8'' is roughly a hand-sized target. That's the grouping I got at 60 meters using 2 joules. Although I hate people deliberately shooting the head, this is just to give an idea how one can expect the rifle to behave in various game context(guy peeking in a window, someone's arm or leg protruding from the cover, narrow door opening...)

-The PDI barrel window wasn't correctly made; I concluded at first sight that the MR-hop shot better than the Decepticons but is it caused by the bucking swap or the barrel correction? Or a mix of both? Further testings required, will be easier to tell with the camera as well.
- I have no idea what power I was being set to when testing the MR-Hop, although it was more of a first sight I wanted to share with the community I'll need to test again.
-I still have to test MR-Hop 80° and 60°, they're sleeping in my bucking case (yes, a bucking case xD, I got so much!)
-Shooting from a standing position is hard; I think there is more accuracy to squeeze from both buckings, further tests required.
-Bubble rail level was offset, useless during testings...

Interesting random facts

-Gives superb consistency in GBBR's and pistols, which are subject to cooldown. Groupings are better than with rubber buckings and fps variations are much smaller.
-My SRS liked the AEG MR-Hop 85° paired with EdGI 5,98 X 460mm barrel, first time I could consider it on par with the T10 which is far easier to finetune. But it needs PTFE tape; SRS chambers are wider than normal aeg chambers. No big deal, seals 100% after.
-My personal in-game record was 115m with the SRS at 2,6 joules and my personal target shooting record at 2,00 joules was 120m (400ft), using the T10, BLS .48 and Modify X-range 65°, flat trajectory hopup setting, aiming ~30ft above (electric post are 10m/33ft high; my point of aim was roughly 3ft under the top.) A posteriori angular calculations gave me about 4,3 degrees of compensation angle. I could only hit 8-10 times out of a full 50 rounds mag, but the X-range was meh past 100m, showing similar pattern as the Autobot, but way more subtle and only seen at extreme range. It was missing often by a few inches, once to the left, once to the right. My objective is to beat the X-range's results with either Decepticons 2021 or MR-Hop 2021 in an uncut video recording, will it succeed? :)

I hope this was useful!
 

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This was EXTREMELY useful, thank you for all of your effort.
I will definitely try the MR-hop now, and compare it to an R-hop.

In my findings, a hard bucking with a middle hardness and grippy patch is the best for everything, and I feel that the new 2021 buckings have come very close to achieving this by the sounds of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Found how to add pictures, 1st is the paper shooting test results with Decepticons 85°, 2,00 joules, .45 , 60 meters

2nd is my T10, looks great!
 

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Good news! Getting perfect seal with the new 2021 Mr-hop 70 deg with an AA cylinder head.
 

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huh, guess i should buy myself some to test that out myself then
 

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I was talking to Silicone Sword and I’m currently ordering a 2021 MRhop 85° and Masada arm!! I currently have the earlier MRhop solid yellow 60° with panthera nub and the performance is hit or many. Many variables, maybe it’s something I did, maybe it’s not...oh well new stuff!!

Random side note. I was able to use an EdGi barrel with vsr bucking with the Airsoft Philosopher chamber. Had to make 2 minor modifications due to proprietary nonsense but hopefully it all works out!! If test shooting goes well, I recorded the install!!
 

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Hmm, interesting.

I picked up 2 each 85° MR hops in AEG and GBB spec.

I have a pretty decently tuned Striker and really precision HPA DMR (I've spent too much time on it...), so I'll be interested in comparing the strikers older MR to the 2021, and my DMR's Lapped PDI with a *good* Rhop to a Maple Crazy jet leaf barrel that I milled into AEG spec with the 2021 MRhop.

Knowing the postal service, it will take a month to get here from Airsoft Atlanta but... will be fun to test.
 

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thanks very much for your testing. I will go for the ml mr hop 2021 once it is available in europe.

In the beginning you mentioned, that you use the Edgi gated supressor. What is your experience with it?
 

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I somehow managed to miss this post i just want to thank you for the testing.
I used Mr hop 70° old one as my primary hop regardless the leak it was exceeding my expectations after I broke it I moved on to autoboot as everyone recommended it so much and i cant say it had such a performance (I'm talking about the old autobot) the bbs went sometimes left then after adjusting sometimes right and the range for me was also a little bit less then on the MR hop so i bough another one thinking I got a bad one but that one performed exactly the same as the last one (same rubber softness 75). Then some time I thought that something was wrong with my gun so i fixed all the leaks all the wobbles tried the old mr hop again but it was destroyed (i used it too many times and had couple of cleaning accidents) then went to the shop to be surprised that they released a new transparent series 2021 so I bought an another autobot (85) it performed actually a little bit better but still the bbs went left sometimes as you mentioned and until I read this I thought that it was in the gun but this post actually opened my eyes the autobot kind of sucks, for my long distance shooting which is almost always +60meters its unreliable and it kinda ruined a few games for me. Tomorrow im ordering myself a new mr hop and a desepticons to test it out. thank you so much one more time
 

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This is exactly the kind of test I've been looking for. Once I get a new spring and sear in my rifle, hop up is next. Been leaning more towards the Decepticons as a second choice to Mr. Hop - this post confirmed that.

Does anyone have the FPS/degree recommendations handy? I can't find my reference....
 
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