[Blind Sniper]

Has anyone recently used one of the Modify X-Range buckings? Seeing if anyone has compared to one of the highly recommended Maple Leaf Autobot 70° setups. I remember reading not so good things about the older tan Modify bucking.

 

[Double_A_Ron]

They're brilliant. I have a Flamingo in my VSR and a Modify in my SSG24. Best two buckings available right now.

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[Blind Sniper]

They're brilliant. I have a Flamingo in my VSR and a Modify in my SSG24. Best two buckings available right now.

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what degree do you use?

 

[Double_A_Ron]

60 in both

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[wyz2285]

The Modify X-range is so far the most versatile and well performing bucking I have used.
Any GBB/R that I have that doesn't shoot good, drop in one of these and 99% they will perform decent.
It's much better than the Autobot, the silicone version of Autobot is comparable tho.

 

[dastierjaeger]

The new modify bucking I've used had pretty decent results with some of my VSR's however I always go back to Maple Leaf as they make harder bucking's and I prefer 80 to 85 degree for my high joule builds. Because of that maple maple leaf is defiantly my go too but Modify make a good bucking's if you cant get your hands on a Maple Leaf. With that said this is all my personal option and experience.

 

[Dimitri MdP]

The Modify X-range is so far the most versatile and well performing bucking I have used.
Any GBB/R that I have that doesn't shoot good, drop in one of these and 99% they will perform decent.
It's much better than the Autobot, the silicone version of Autobot is comparable tho.

That's BS, specially in a GBBR where the Autobot's metal ring guarantees grabbing onto the nozzle like no other, which is critical for performance. Other than that (major) difference, backspin is backspin is backspin

 

[SiliconeSword]

That's BS, specially in a GBBR where the Autobot's metal ring guarantees grabbing onto the nozzle like no other, which is critical for performance. Other than that (major) difference, backspin is backspin is backspin

With HPA engines and I imagine GBBRs, the nozzles kick the BB really hard.
This places the BB at different depths each time, varying the amount of hop by quite a bit which messes up hit rate.
Some buckings just do better in these guns, which the X-range seem to be one of.
Another fix is .50g ammo, but that gets expensive fast, and is usually too heavy for the power many guns put out.

 

[Dimitri MdP]

With HPA engines and I imagine GBBRs, the nozzles kick the BB really hard.

With all due respect, if you're starting a claim with "I imagine", that's where your claim should end.

The whole team has been running WE AKs and SVD (and custom-made "WE" RPK) for years, always with Autobot buckings, and they still perform incredibly well. Initial bb position is not an issue with Autobot buckings and it has never been. Preventing premature nozzle disconnection from the chamber is extremely important in GBBRs, and no bucking ever will do better than Maple Leaf's in that regard

 

[SiliconeSword]

I have experience with HPA engines and no experience with GBBRs, but I've been told and I expect that they have issues with BB seating, and BB chopping sometimes, am I right?

Everybody will have different experiences when it comes to this, but I will note your numerous successes.
This can be down to anything, but if somebody has great results when switching from a bucking to another bucking, chances are it's the bucking.
I really don't understand the blind loyalty seen in sports, and I think it's absolutely stupid when it comes to things like airsoft part brands(except Airsoft Philosopher, fuck them) so I really don't have any hurt feelings when it comes to if a bucking is better than another, it's just a matter of what is best in your own gun.

As for backspin is backspin is backspin, I agree with that, but I've seen some really weird things that make me think otherwise.
Scientifically speaking that should be perfectly true, but airsoft just defies everything at times.

 

[Dimitri MdP]

I have experience with HPA engines and no experience with GBBRs, but I've been told and I expect that they have issues with BB seating, and BB chopping sometimes, am I right?

GBBRs don't work like HPA engines, at least not anymore. Chopping, inconsistent seating, and even some awful jammings are true in 2-decades + old systems such as WE AWSS ("closed bolt") and old-school Escort systems (which nowadays means Daytona Gun, famous for their "5000 round wear-in period"), as in those, the nozzle works just like in a HPA engine.

But modern GBBR don't really have that issue anymore. I have tried every hyped bucking out there, none provided better results than any other. Let's be honest, they are all reinventing some sort of drop-in r-hop.

But there's a difference that makes Maple Leaf better for GBBRs: the metal ring that helps it grab onto the nozzle like no other. Even their own lineup has different path shapes that don't really make any difference, other than how much pressure you need to apply. MR. Hop = Autobot = Decepticon = Super = Wonder... all marketing gimmicks. Different patch shapes, still backspin is backspin.

In any GBBR, the gas flow is controlled by the slide / bolt carrier disengaging the valve locker as it travels the length of the nozzle. The nozzle should stay connected up until that point and only then retract. Most GBBRs fail to do so with their OEM buckings, resulting in quite some gas being expelled directly to the atmosphere. That's the main source for poor performance, and that's why any GBBR benefits from a maple leaf bucking.

 

[SiliconeSword]

Good to know, I'm not super up to date on gas guns.

I feel like part of the thing with Maple Leaf having different patches is to trick people thinking they have to choose one, instead of choosing another bucking from somebody else. This is a classic marketing thing.
One thing to think about with the X-range is that having a ball on 2 wide tracks will be closer to the center of rotation, while 2 narrow tracks will be further away from the center of rotation. I forget which does which, but one rolls faster, so it would probably "hop harder".

Contrary to many opinions, I too like the metal clip, which is one of the things that sets Maple Leaf apart from everybody else.
Many buckings have an entrance that is too loose, resulting in great compatibility but poor performance, like you said.
The ML buckings are somewhat adjustable though, and you can even put a shim UNDER that metal clip to further tighten the entrance.
I've done this on a pistol before and gained .3J.

 

[whalesmash]

Feels like both of you are generally heading in the same direction with your comments. Here's what I'll say: Your accuracy is only as good as the weakest link in your gun. If your nozzle/bucking seal is garbage, your power delivery is inconsistent and you get less accuracy. If your loading force is excessive and its not placing the BB in a consistent place on your bucking, you get less accuracy. At the end of the day, you need to bring all of these aspects in line in order to see improvements. You could have the best nozzle/bucking seal in the world but if your BB is flopping around inbetween the hop patch and the nozzle, chances are there's little improvement. Similarly, you could have the worlds best rhop job, but if you're not sealing that nozzle/bucking then your power delivery is just all over the board and once again, little improvement.

Here's my take on the maple leaf stuff: The tightness of that metal ring does help in many situations, especially in hop up units that are loose by default. I've found that for some guns, even if I don't use the ring, the size of the bucking lips are still tight enough to grab the nozzle much more than a stock bucking. This probably also helps with the loading consistency and reduces the "kicking the bb past the bucking" effect to some extent. That said, what is there to say that there can't be another bucking out there that has thicker lips by default and doesn't need that metal ring? You could achieve the same result that the metal ring achieves just by making the bucking lips thicker/the hole narrower. Saying that the maple leaf is the end all be all is dangerously close to blind fanaticism. There can be better buckings, and we should all be happy when something is better.

I also don't believe that there is no BB kick out of GBBRs. I'm sure it's a lot better than they were in the past, but at the end of the day, the way GBBRs load bbs into their respective chambers simply involves a lot of moving mass compared to most other loading systems. Think about it, it's a nozzle that is usually housed in some ungodly heavy pot metal bolt that is flying forward under the pressure of a pretty strong recoil spring. Again, having a tight bucking probably helps twice in this regard as it can slow the BB's loading speed for more consistent placement, but also slow the nozzle's forward momentum as it loads. If anything, this enforces the idea that GBBRs still have inconsistent seating as their accuracy is generally piss poor with their generic stock buckings. If this was solely a problem of nozzle to bucking tightness, then the accuracy issues should be entirely resolvable by wrapping teflon tape around the stock bucking such that the shoulders squeeze the nozzle more. Having tried this a few times, I'll say it can help a bit, but it would be much more fitting to say it's only one part of the solution.

 

[wyz2285]

That's BS, specially in a GBBR where the Autobot's metal ring guarantees grabbing onto the nozzle like no other, which is critical for performance. Other than that (major) difference, backspin is backspin is backspin

Don't call BS on things you don't know. GBBR does not need the nozzle grab to have seal, the active pressure pushes the nozzle against the bucking to seal. Take a GBB/GBBR and remove your metal ring and let the nozzle move freely, you will get the same FPS.
The Modify x-range has some ribs on the inside which slows down the BB chamber speed which improves the chamber position consistency. The material is also superior than standard Autobot.
I see ML fanboys are everywhere so I won't spend more time argue with you, but don' mislead others.

 

[SiliconeSword]

I forgot to mention, material is also a key point which makes a bucking good or bad for a certain use.
Not really sure about anything specific, but different rubbers will give vastly different results

 

[Dimitri MdP]

Don't call BS on things you don't know. GBBR does not need the nozzle grab to have seal, the active pressure pushes the nozzle against the bucking to seal. Take a GBB/GBBR and remove your metal ring and let the nozzle move freely, you will get the same FPS.

I know. I maintain the GBBRs for the whole country. The pressure should push it forward, true. 90% of the times, it doesn't. Anything, from a slightly swollen seal increasing friction to a return spring heavier than it should, the mag putting vertical force into the nozzle getting it into a slight upward angle, or even a less-than-perfect seal preventing the effective buildup of said pressure will make it disconnect.

Check any hi-speed footage where you can see the extraction window of a GBBR and you'll see that in most of them the nozzle disconnects prematurely, letting a lot of gas go directly to the atmosphere.

Yes, you get the same FPS, as the floating valve closes much faster than any nozzle disconnects. But you don't get the same recoil or efficiency, which translates into increased cooldown and ruins accuracy .

 

[Blind Sniper]

@SiliconeSword I love your hatred towards airsoft philosopher 😂 I want to try an Autobot or x-range in my ap chamber with the gen 2 nub. Also want to see how the x-range does in the AA with Masada arm.

 

[wyz2285]

I know. I maintain the GBBRs for the whole country. The pressure should push it forward, true. 90% of the times, it doesn't. Anything, from a slightly swollen seal increasing friction to a return spring heavier than it should, the mag putting vertical force into the nozzle getting it into a slight upward angle, or even a less-than-perfect seal preventing the effective buildup of said pressure will make it disconnect.

Check any hi-speed footage where you can see the extraction window of a GBBR and you'll see that in most of them the nozzle disconnects prematurely, letting a lot of gas go directly to the atmosphere.

Yes, you get the same FPS, as the floating valve closes much faster than any nozzle disconnects. But you don't get the same recoil or efficiency, which translates into increased cooldown and ruins accuracy .

You just defeated your own argument. We are talking about bucking firstly, then since the FPS is the same then the bucking did the same job.
Second, recoil comes from nozzle pushing the bolt backwards, grabbing the nozzle does none of that; If the nozzle retracts that means the pressure inside the bolt carrier is gone, aka the gas input is already shut off, therefor grabbing the nozzle or not does not impact the recoil in a positive way. The force the bucking grabs the nozzle is nothing compared to even breath pressure applied to the area of the nozzle;
I bet what you see in the video is gas leaking from the lip of the mag or just excessive gas stored inside the bolt carrier getting released. What could lead to bad gas efficiency and/or weak recoil is a bad seal between the bolt carrier and nozzle, but that has nothing to do with the bucking.
I truly hate myself for argue with strangers about things that doesn't really affect me with the little free time I have but then I remember when I was young and digging for every piece of useful info and had to shred off the layers and layers of BS so here I am, doing it for a little "me" somewhere.

 

[Dimitri MdP]

If the nozzle retracts that means the pressure inside the bolt carrier is gone, aka the gas input is already shut off, therefor grabbing the nozzle or not does not impact the recoil in a positive way

I don't understand why you take this in such a personal level. Maybe some of my words came out stronger than I intended, if that's the case I apologize, please keep in mind that this is not my native language. I thought we were having a technical discussion, nothing more.

.......

For hi-speed cameras, there's always gas venting, as all the gas that moved the bolt carrier has to go somewhere, that's the standard functioning of any modern GBBR. I'm not referring to that. I meant simply looking at the nozzle position as the bolt travels back, and it will be super clear if the disconnection is occurring at the right moment or not.

If the bolt has a mechanical force causing premature disconnection, such as the upward tilt in the nozzle caused by the magazine itself, the nozzle will go back with the bolt before the point that's supposed to, i.e. when the bolt has travelled the full length of the nozzle. That causes the gas flow to stay open (as the bolt has not reached the point where it disengages the valve locker) even though there's no connection anymore between the magazine's gas route and the nozzle input. I know it's not supposed to happen, but I see it all the time.Keep in mind that the pressure trying to keep the nozzle coupled is fighting against the nozzle return spring, the friction in the seal, and whatever mechanical force pushing in any direction other than a perfect straight line

In most GBBRs the initial puff of gas is more than enough to cycle the bolt, albeit not optimally. Some even work when you disable the valve locker, which is the awful trick that Poseidon uses in their Turbo Valve shims to reach a gazillion shots per fill, coupled with a piston head that barely seals, and therefore allows the nozzle to disconnect WAY earlier, as otherwise it wouldn't feed with such a pitiful travel. They deliberately cause the issue and market it as a science-defying miracle.

...

Keeping a good coupling between the nozzle and the hop chamber is the third most important thing for a GBBR, right after keeping a good connection between the gas route and the nozzle input, and specially, having the best seal between the nozzle and bolt carrier.

And no, you don't NEED a Maple Leaf bucking to achieve that. Many other good buckings will do in many guns. And you definitely don't NEED the ring in some guns, heck even I run it ring-less in the VFC M40A5, as otherwise it causes jams.
What I'm saying is that their buckings are the only ones that actively address that issue. And that's why I stick to them for any GBBR

 

[Crius]

Has anyone recently used one of the Modify X-Range buckings?

Is one of the top choices. I've installed-test ML Autobot 2021 and X-Range in my VSR. Both provide great bb trajectory and accuracy (X-range in use).
I have (will install) a X-Range for my SSX23 too when stock bucking (ML Autob0ot old version, great bb trajectory) wears out.