[bobgengeskahn]

I didn't see a recent thread on the P* and I didn't want to necro post.

I found this (FINALLY), been looking for someone thats done this for a while:

http://www.b-rad.org/2011/12/pr-15-fusion-engine-teardown.html

 

[razgriz22]

I have a thread about my p* and could gladly
Give any more information about it if anyone
Had any questions.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Where is the second solenoid located? Is it a LP set up that bleeds off the main line to actuates the nozzle? If so how did they add a second regulator? Or is it like a QEV set up?

 

[razgriz22]

I am a little embarrassed to say but that went way over my head. I run mine on a slp rig meaning I only use one regulator that knocks it down from 4500 psi to whatever I choose (0-140). But only up to 120 is safe for the gun. The solenoid in the system then draws from whatever I have running (up to 120 psi). I assume it also uses part of that to move the nozzle. You can adjust settings for how long air is given to the nozzle to increase the distance it is pulled back as well. Hope that helps at least a little bit.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Sorry, too much time on spudfiles.

What has interested me in the P* is mainly the feeding operation and how they time it with firing the BB. From what I read in the OP link they have a second solenoid that runs the nozzle, that allows for open or closed bolt operation. According to the author of the link there is a second solenoid that is operated in time with the primary solenoid, controlled by the FCU.

How it works: from trigger to kill (closed bolt mode)
0: You pull the trigger, and it hits the bottom button on the circuit board.
1: The FCU then controls the timing of firing the solenoids.
2: In "closed bolt mode" the FCU fires the solenoid that controls the poppet valve.
3: This opens the poppet valve for firing allowing HPA to propel a BB to your foe
4: The FCU fires the solenoid that controls the nozzle, loading the next BB into the hopup.

How it works: from trigger to kill (open bolt mode)
0: You pull the trigger, and it hits the bottom button on the circuit board.
1: The FCU then controls the timing of firing the solenoids.
2: In "open bolt mode" The FCU fires the solenoid that controls the nozzle, loading the next BB into the hopup.
3: The FCU fires the solenoid that controls the poppet valve first.
4: This opens the poppet valve for firing allowing HPA to propel a BB to your foe

So really, there is nothing new or innovative here. Not to discredit P* or their work, but it's basically what has been around in paintball for the last decade, adapted to a 6mm BB... not really what I'm looking for. But since everyone is raving about it I wanted to see if there was actually anything innovative, or if it was just a really pretty shell with an ion in it:

http://www.zdspb.com/tech/mguide/ion/parts_body_design.html

So for the purposes of my build there is really nothing I can use, however I am inching closer to what I am looking for!

 

[Wolfgeorge]

This is the engine in the Asahi WA2000, that was built in 1993!!

Wolf

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Really? Suddenly very disappointed :'( . I thought the Asahi was more like this:

Sad day. But on the up side that means that what I'm coming up with will really be different than anything out there!

 

[razgriz22]

Whatever is inside the P* it's next to unbreakable if taken care of right. The FCU is amazing as well with all the customizability (if that's a word) it gives . I love it and will get defensive over anyone talking crap on it. GRRRR

 

[bobgengeskahn]

The nice thing about the P* is the package.

You can get computerized MOSFETs for your normal AEG with all the features and more than the P* for about $180, you can build them with some code knowledge for about $40 and you can build a basic MOSFET for about $5 that you would buy for $50.

The P* is cool, no doubt, but it is a step back to classic airsoft with modern manufacturing. It's only brought us to where we were 25 years ago. It is not a step forward like everyone is saying and thinking it is. People only think it is because of the marketing and the fact that everyone (myself included) has only known AEGs unless you've been playing forever; and most players today are too lazy to really do the reading and dig up what classic was and how it works.

Nothing against you, I'm just tired of people thinking it's the most amazing thing since sliced bread; but that seems to be going around a lot in general recently...

 

[Wolfgeorge]

Basically this is the Asahi internals... I haven't gone past this!

And these are from a Japanese site

Wolf

 

[razgriz22]

It is similar to the old way airsoft was yes, but it is a new system. Gearboxes were a step back, persay, from hpa. Yes gearboxes are more entry friendly and cheaper, but in no way are they better or more monetarily smart. On average there are at least 15 moving parts in a gearbox. Most are poorly designed and could use major improvement. But company's just keep making them. Yes you can buy parts made from stronger material but in the end that will cost just as much as a
P* and cut back on the flexibility of your gun. What does it cost to make the best dmr that you can internally? A lot. I would put it around 500 when everything is said And done. Now you have a dmr (at least the intetnals). This goes the same for a high rate of fire gun. After a good bit of money you now can shoot blazingly fast. But it can do only that. The p* can do both right out of the box at the push of a button or change of a
Nozzle that costs 18$ and about 4 minutes of your time.

For instanse, this weekend I have two events. Saturday I am playing in an urban environment that is close to medium range. I drop in my blue nozzle and adjust air pressure to hit chrono right on the spot and jack up my rof to whatever I please. Sunday I am playing designated sniper. I throw in my red nozzle and chrono at the semi auto mark for the field and I'm good to go. I even lock down my full auto so that I can only shoot semi.

This system also allows you to adjust for any magazine depending how fast it feeds or how it fits into your mag well. It can also adjust the volume of air traveling down your barrel to match the length of it. No more annoying bore ups with crappy air seal. This allows me to chrono in regulation then drop in .4's and only lose minimal fps compared to if I did that with an aeg. In all honesty .4's are not even heavy enough. I use zero hop for a straight flight path. If I put any hop on at all it will fly the .4's. Meaning I need heavier ammo to use hop and be even more accurate.

Keep in mind I can do all of this while still chronoing legally in field regulation. This is why I have to disagree with you when you say this system is a step back.

 

[wack2011a]

A company is going to make a killing when they figure out how to make .45+ BBs when everyone realises HPA is the "way forward."

Cannot wait for a Chinese P* replica, it will be hilarious.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Wolf, do you know if the solenoid is momentary or constant? Basically as long as the switch is pressed (trigger pulled) it is on or is it linked with a FCU to make it release after a set amount of time even if the trigger is still pulled?

 

[razgriz22]

Bioval is working with some airsoft stores in making dimpled heavy weight bb's. But Bioval should be making as white as possible .5's and .6's. Some guys at amped airsoft in Pittsburg even stuck a crap barrel in and shot 6mm .88 gram ceramic bearings. Now you could small game hunt with that but it just shows what the p* can do.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

I'm not going to start a pointless internet argument with you about how awesome you might think the P* is. All I was pointing out is that it is not as amazing as you or everyone thinks it is. Yes it is new and it is a HPA drop in for those of you with V2 boxes and soon V3, and yes there are MINOR changes from classic airsoft. HOWEVER on the whole, our sport has been lost the last 20 years and is just now gaining ground again.

You bring up points like variable ROF and FPS independently of eachother, these things have been around for a decade in one form or another between airsoft, paintball and pellet guns. There is nothing new besides the package.

EDIT: I guess what I'm really trying to get at is that we're15 years behind the curve. Now give me a P* with a functioning charging handle, submersible, +\- 1fps, runs HPA and real levels of recoil and I'll be impressed. Although I still think that hop up integration is the only way to go for accuracy.

 

[razgriz22]

It's called versatility and reliability. But yea that nothing new... If have any better ideas for the sport I'm sure They would be greatly appreciated. What direction would you like to see it go in?

 

[wack2011a]

I was at Amped the other day and they were saying the .88s had a straight flight path up to 100yards which is pretty impressive considering the barrel, however the .88s being metal are in no way safe to use

 

[bobgengeskahn]

What direction would you like to see it go in?

I'd like to see integrated hop up + engine assemblies in a format similar to mechboxes where there would be 2-3 "versions" that fit into various rifle bodies. Ideally entirely mechanical, like some of the GBBs out there now, although electric FCUs are really cool; but each have their own problems and challenges. As well as having an actual bolt that moves, both providing recoil and a functioning charging mechanism.

However capitalism gets in the way and too many companies would lose business and wouldn't be able to adapt fast enough. Not that I dislike capitalism lol, it just moves slowly.

 

[woogie]

There is a gearbox out there that has the hop up built into the the gearbox. I can't remember the name of it, but I did have one, and am kicking myself now for selling it.


But yes it is a great system, but if you have ever used a true classic, then you will know that this is really nothing new. All they really did was bring back something that we already knew. But what I think they really did was open people back up to something that many of them didn't know about, or thought that they would never be able to use. Because not many people are able to run a classic rifle anymore, though with the P* you are kind of getting there. While not a classic it runs on basically the same principle, just with newer technology.


I have had the chance to run with a Sun Projects M16 a few years ago at a large game. And man was it a blast!

But I also think that the next "big thing" is going to be a system much like the P* but like was said before, is submersible, and has a functioning charging handle. Then I think you would really have something on your hands.

Make it very reliable
Use easily accessible mags
Very user friendly
Function externals, dust cover, forward assist, charging handle ( when talking about an M4 )
And able to take very common external parts
Make it at a reasonable price to a consumer



Something like that...... I think you would have something great on your hands!

 

[akfortyseven]

There is a gearbox out there that has the hop up built into the the gearbox. I can't remember the name of it, but I did have one, and am kicking myself now for selling it.

Pro-Win?