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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
1. So you don't wash and sort AI bbs trusting their balls are good enough to be shooted straight from bottle?
2. Why you think silicone based buckings arę bot good? All popular models now are silicone based like all ML's or X range. Rubber bucking had problems with cold shots, and for sniper it was huge disadvantage.
3. How much spacers between inner and outer barrel you have? I have only one in my gspec.
 

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VW Sharan
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1. So you don't wash and sort AI bbs trusting their balls are good enough to be shooted straight from bottle?
2. Why you think silicone based buckings arę bot good? All popular models now are silicone based like all ML's or X range. Rubber bucking had problems with cold shots, and for sniper it was huge disadvantage.
3. How much spacers between inner and outer barrel you have? I have only one in my gspec.
1 . I don't trust anybody , just trust myself and not always ;-) Just trying to avoid brand of BB's like "Golden dragon" ; Fury tiger etc. etc. Of course I am sorting the BB's for my long range sessions , but only by weight, but as I mentioned above there's nothing to do if the BB's have disturbed internal weight balance. The top brand chasing the FIVE S's : Super high gloss ; Super sphericity ; Super balance ; Super toughness & Super slick. . What is the guarantee that the sphericity is perfect? OK, you measure the diameter by putting the ball through a calibration hole and it passes, but if you turn it about 90 degrees, will the size be the same?
2 . Silicone bushings are at least as good as others of the same hardness sometimes. It's just that my experience shows that silicone ones have a shorter life and are prone to permanent deformation. I base my opinion on my experience, not what the manufacturers advertise.
3 . On my TAC338 I've installed full sized , custom made spacer 350 mm long, made from polymer . And there is no gap between two barrels at all . Also filled up the stock with silicone wool. Out of the box my Novritsch was shooting with 90 decibels noise . Now it whispers with less than 70 . We talking about overall noise , which the replica produces. Compacting all possible places in one replica is not mandatory, but it is desirable. With good sealing, all those ringing and rattling noises when fired caused by poor assembly and design flaws almost disappear
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
How much you paid for scale? And what model and brand you use? Is it accurate to catch 0.001g differences?

Also questions : how often do you clean barrel inside? Its better to do it often when white marks/tracks occurs or should I let barrel be "lapped". BLS lapped IT really fast.
 

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How much you paid for scale? And what model and brand you use? Is it accurate to catch 0.001g differences?

Also questions : how often do you clean barrel inside? Its better to do it often when white marks/tracks occurs or should I let barrel be "lapped". BLS lapped IT really fast.
This is the scale I am using. Bought itt from Ali express for less than 20 Euros . Cleaning barrels after every shooting session.

 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Ok.
1.When you weight your BB's - mean this Airsoft Precision Ammunition Heavy - production of Accuracy International UK. What accuracy your scale has? For example if you measure the same BB what is the spread?
2. And second question - how you group them? More like 0.47/48/49 or with more details like 0.475/480/485? What differences are possible to catch with scale like this ~20$? I found them in polish market also and wondering if its worth it. Did you ever tested accuracy with and without sorting? Big differences you achieved?

Cheers Mate!
 

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Ok.
1.When you weight your BB's - mean this Airsoft Precision Ammunition Heavy - production of Accuracy International UK. What accuracy your scale has? For example if you measure the same BB what is the spread?
2. And second question - how you group them? More like 0.47/48/49 or with more details like 0.475/480/485? What differences are possible to catch with scale like this ~20$? I found them in polish market also and wondering if its worth it. Did you ever tested accuracy with and without sorting? Big differences you achieved?

Cheers Mate!
1 . I am shooting most of the time with "Airsoft Precision Ammunition Heavy - production of Accuracy International UK" distributed by ASG Denmark because they are only available on Bulgarian market out of my three favorite brands in the heavy "division". I have some irregular supplies of "Geoff's' and "Valken" from my fellas veterans from US, They are very kind to me, as ve have some mutual memories back in time from Iraq and Afghanistan, and they know that my disability pension i s 10 ( ten ) times less then theirs. That's why I relay of what is one hand away from me . For AI UK BB's I've experienced amplitude in the weight between 0.472 and 0.483 g. which is damn great and very narrow window of weight variation. Geoff's and Valken are almost there as amplitude .
2 . I am grouping them in three pots : 1 : 0.472 - 0.475 / 2 : 0.476 - 0.480 / 3 : 0.481 and above. Why shouldn't I trust to scale purchased for 20 bucks ?! It is a public secret that if you buy something and on it you don't find a mark "Made in China" the product is copy and fake :cool: . The jewellery scales are based on a very simple electronic technology and can be produced in every Chinese back yard and with magnificent quality . This is not a space technology for God sakes ;-) If you a rich enough can purchase . a Swiss made scale for 5000$ but the precision will be same . You just will pay extra cash for the brand and the label. I am a poor pensioner and feed my ego with whatever I can afford .
Yeah, sometimes I am shooting at 70 m without weight checking and grouping the BB's and the differences aren't significant. And something else I've noticed . Same brand, same weight , same retailer . Two bottles of BB's bought with a week distance in time and they shooting totally different . And I deeply believe that is not about the sphericity , or weight or polishing . All comes from the BB's weight internal balance . And I believe that it is a main factor for good accuracy. Well . Diameter vary with 0.05 - 0.1 mm / or weight vary with few milligrams . So what ?! Just imagine : You cut a BB with weight 0.48 gr. on two ideal halves. Putting 'em on the scale you have results of 0.22 g and 0.26 g. That means that the similar BB's with the same wrong balance will never be affected by super - duper hop ups , barrels or so . They will fly like crazy wasp .
After 40 years of experience with the various kinds and types of weapons, I have come to the conclusion that deviations from the standard and anomalies must be categorized and classified by importance and degree of effect on shooting. And to pursue only the most important ones. Trying to dig deep and simultaneously into all the possible deviations risks getting lost in the jungle of opinions and variations in the various forums and publications. Therefore, in terms of pellets, I mainly rely on ammo with a very good weight balance, and all other characteristics such as , size, weight, roundness, smoothness, etc. I consider secondary. These practices of polishing, measuring with calibrators, oiling, wiping, kissing and explaining in love to the BB's, etc. are for people who have an awful lot of free time and nothing particularly important to do in their lives. I don't want this to sound rude and arrogant, but first and foremost airsoft is fun and a good pastime, and if someone wants to turn their hobby into their own castle of horrors - please, that's their life. ;-) Cheers from Bulgaria pan ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
1. I have just ordered one bottle of AI for 23,80 EUR, hope it will fly good. It's very nice, that you have friends for entire life, which send you sometimes little gifts. Military really integrate men. Is sad that you only achieve1/10 of their salary. You all risk your lifes in the same level. :(
2. "1 : 0.472 - 0.475 / 2 : 0.476 - 0.480 / 3 : 0.481+ " seems to be really precise splitting. I wonder if you spot anny difference if you for example shot 10 bb's with weight 0.472 and 10 with 0.482. How those groups will look like without changing HU adjustment. Yeah man.Bubbles inside BB's are nightmare. And we can do nothing with it, we can even check without destroying BB where the bubbles are. I also think that crazy wasp are mainly bubbles, no diameters or weights.
3. Yes. I understand. I dont want to " polishing, measuring with calibrators, oiling, wiping, kissing and explaining in love to the BB's ", but just pay attention for the most important things, which affect on my results the most. So I ask you a lot, becouse I see you have huge experience. Now I see that main factors of good shoiting are things like: good BB's striaght from bottle, stable FPS and good HU config. Thank you, cheers!
 

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2 Well they should all be better .47-.485g, so you should split them into as small of categories as you feel like.
Personally, I'd do it by the third decimal, but that'd be about 20 different groups.
It wouldn't take any extra time really, you'd just need more little containers.
For bubbles, I think that BLS and ASG are probably pretty decent, but all you have to do to compare air bubbles is look at horizontal spread. Vertical spread will be weight and size inconsistency, but horizontal will be down to how round they are and how the air bubbles are.

3 I suggest that you try all of that individually, and then just use the things that make a difference. With most BBs these days, I think that washing is unnecessary and polishing may be pointless unless the BBs are really bad, but sorting by weight should be good, and sorting by size will probably be about as good but a little more difficult.

Start with weighing though, a scale is cheaper than all of the reamers, material, and costs of having a size sorter made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hi again. I spotted that my Panther stalker nub in AA chamber arm looks like this.There is yellow (empty) space between nub and arm. Do you think it can matter? For example giving not equal pressure between shoots and affect on trajectory? Omega from Maple Leaf fits great, but its just hard rubber, so its not strange.


Rectangle Font Tints and shades Slope Parallel
 

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Consider Longbow from here in the UK. I've tried every brand of BB I can find (within reason) over the years and in my experience (as anecdotal and subjective as that is, also noting it might be that my set-up "likes them") these aren't surpassed by any other brand. They are probably equaled by some and they are around £24 for 1000 but I haven't found anything more consistent - with the above caveats in place.

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Hi Doctor Jest! Nice to see somebody to talk about Longbows. So! I tested them...twice. First time on configuration 1."AA chamber/PDI 6.01 500mm/Autobot 2021 silicone 80/Panther stalker nub". System wasn't cleaned after previously used BLS (about 500-1000 BB's lapped the bucking and barrel for this type of BLS BB's) and there were white "marks" on the barrel and bucking. I load Longbows and accuracy was about twice worse than BLS. Both BLS and Longbows were previously cleaned using warm water and dishwashing luquid and after that of course pure water rinsing. I shot about 40 bbs and sell this expensive shit to another player. After 3 months I run them one more time with thinking "maybe system (mean bucking and barrel) was just dirty/lapped for BLS, so BLS worked fine, but Longbows no". I cleaned everything as possible and run Longbows 0.48g again. Using previous configuration and two new: 2. "Autobot 2021 silicone 80 and Omega nub" and 3. "Mr Hop 85 and Omega nub". On every truly clear barrel&bucking configuration I run about 15-30 BB's and I saw big spread of shots. Firstly(1-5 BBs) they flight good, after few shots they just started no moving down. I strengthened the pressure in HU and they were flying ok in right-left directions but tottaly big spread up-down. One BB can fly about 2-3 dots over cross, second in point and third 2-3 dots below cross. After running about 15-30 BB's I just stopped tests and tried another config and after all I just sold the BB's to no waste more money. 0.16 PLN per BB is a bit expensive for polish citizen ;) So my question guys are:
1. Maybe I should try shot more than 15-30 BB's to let BB's "fit in system/lapped the barrel & bucking". F. ex. 200 BB's after will it be better?
2. I spotted that Longbows are more "slippery and polished". On chrono BLS gave 3,60J and Longbows 3,70J with the same settings. They propably run faster by the barrel and also did no marks on bucking and barrel.
3. Maybe Longbows are just to much "slippery and polished" to achieve good backispin from silicone bucking? Maybe the just need rubber bucking, older type?
4. Maybe Longbows are not as good as before anymore?

Everybody says that they are great, but in my VSR they fly much worse than BLS from medium hand. So many questions and no answers. I'm starting to freak out. Why they don't fly better than BLS? Also you maybe know...Longbows are manufactured in EU/UK? Or its just rebranded Taiwan BLS or sth like this?
Thanks guys, cheers!
 

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Hey fella.

As I said before, I had the reverse situation with Longbow and BLS so everything is down to speculation - and unfortunately, I don't know where they are manufactured. I suspect that they, like 95% of the BBs out there, are rebranded. Probably.

I'm using a MR 60 degree bucking (2021) and a solid aluminium nub that came with the Tridos TDC. The barrel is a 6.03-5.98mm Edgi 430mm, and energy is just under 2.3j. The longbow I have at the moment are, if anything, a little less slippery than the BLS I have but there wasn't a huge difference in the two results.....it's odd they perform so badly for you!

1) Possibly. I don't find that the system needs that long to settle in or get to temperature, so I don't know if more would help.
2) Interesting.
3) Could be. I wonder if my nub, being absolutely solid, helps in that regard.
4) Also could be. I don't know how much variation we see from batch to batch, but there has to be some.

I'm Sorry, I'm not more help, I know it's incredibly frustrating. I had a similar situation with the sniper mechanic flamingo bucking and my standard AA chamber.....only solved it by changing to Maple Leaf and Tridos.
 

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Hi again. I spotted that my Panther stalker nub in AA chamber arm looks like this.There is yellow (empty) space between nub and arm. Do you think it can matter? For example giving not equal pressure between shoots and affect on trajectory? Omega from Maple Leaf fits great, but its just hard rubber, so its not strange.


View attachment 21242
I think that at this point for you, you are chasing minute improvements, and this would be a minute improvement.

My nub is molded inside of your chamber, if you've seen my tutorial thread, and will account for any weird tolerances in your chamber or arm.
Nubs usually have to be made to fit all batches of AA chambers, but my nub will fit the exact chamber you have perfectly, and will help noticeably, especially compared to an Omega nub, which I absolutely hate.
If you read the posts from other people in my thread that have tried an SS-nub, they are quite pleased with it, if that helps.

I find that hard nubs that are attached to a very rigid and stable arm is the best for everything as it is 100% repeatable hop with no squishing or movement, so I would not bother too much with rubber nubs. I've tried a few on the market plus a bunch of homemade ones, and molded epoxy which is essentially plastic is the best. Metal would be good, but it's harder to machine something perfectly than it is to use the piece for a mold for a nub, as you will have a fit tighter than .0001 of an inch, if the chamber will accept that.
 

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Hey fella.

As I said before, I had the reverse situation with Longbow and BLS so everything is down to speculation - and unfortunately, I don't know where they are manufactured. I suspect that they, like 95% of the BBs out there, are rebranded. Probably.

I'm using a MR 60 degree bucking (2021) and a solid aluminium nub that came with the Tridos TDC. The barrel is a 6.03-5.98mm Edgi 430mm, and energy is just under 2.3j. The longbow I have at the moment are, if anything, a little less slippery than the BLS I have but there wasn't a huge difference in the two results.....it's odd they perform so badly for you!

1) Possibly. I don't find that the system needs that long to settle in or get to temperature, so I don't know if more would help.
2) Interesting.
3) Could be. I wonder if my nub, being absolutely solid, helps in that regard.
4) Also could be. I don't know how much variation we see from batch to batch, but there has to be some.

I'm Sorry, I'm not more help, I know it's incredibly frustrating. I had a similar situation with the sniper mechanic flamingo bucking and my standard AA chamber.....only solved it by changing to Maple Leaf and Tridos.
Your spring not Hpa right? If so that 500mm barrel is way too long, your too undervolumed for that BB weight, which will cause inconsistencies in performance.

Check out 1tonnes ultimate vsr building guide for ideal barrel length for your BB weight.
 

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I find that hard nubs that are attached to a very rigid and stable arm is the best for everything as it is 100% repeatable hop with no squishing or movement, so I would not bother too much with rubber nubs. I've tried a few on the market plus a bunch of homemade ones, and molded epoxy which is essentially plastic is the best. Metal would be good, but it's harder to machine something perfectly than it is to use the piece for a mold for a nub, as you will have a fit tighter than .0001 of an inch, if the chamber will accept that.
I'd agree. I just switched to a metal nub (Tridos TDC) and nothing moves unless you wish it to do so. The hop adjustment wheel has a spring-loaded detent which ensures minute and repeatable adjustments, the increments are minute and it's certainly far better than the Edgi TDC I was running previously.
 

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Hi Doctor Jest! Nice to see somebody to talk about Longbows. So! I tested them...twice. First time on configuration 1."AA chamber/PDI 6.01 500mm/Autobot 2021 silicone 80/Panther stalker nub". System wasn't cleaned after previously used BLS (about 500-1000 BB's lapped the bucking and barrel for this type of BLS BB's) and there were white "marks" on the barrel and bucking. I load Longbows and accuracy was about twice worse than BLS. Both BLS and Longbows were previously cleaned using warm water and dishwashing luquid and after that of course pure water rinsing. I shot about 40 bbs and sell this expensive shit to another player. After 3 months I run them one more time with thinking "maybe system (mean bucking and barrel) was just dirty/lapped for BLS, so BLS worked fine, but Longbows no". I cleaned everything as possible and run Longbows 0.48g again. Using previous configuration and two new: 2. "Autobot 2021 silicone 80 and Omega nub" and 3. "Mr Hop 85 and Omega nub". On every truly clear barrel&bucking configuration I run about 15-30 BB's and I saw big spread of shots. Firstly(1-5 BBs) they flight good, after few shots they just started no moving down. I strengthened the pressure in HU and they were flying ok in right-left directions but tottaly big spread up-down. One BB can fly about 2-3 dots over cross, second in point and third 2-3 dots below cross. After running about 15-30 BB's I just stopped tests and tried another config and after all I just sold the BB's to no waste more money. 0.16 PLN per BB is a bit expensive for polish citizen ;) So my question guys are:
1. Maybe I should try shot more than 15-30 BB's to let BB's "fit in system/lapped the barrel & bucking". F. ex. 200 BB's after will it be better?
2. I spotted that Longbows are more "slippery and polished". On chrono BLS gave 3,60J and Longbows 3,70J with the same settings. They propably run faster by the barrel and also did no marks on bucking and barrel.
3. Maybe Longbows are just to much "slippery and polished" to achieve good backispin from silicone bucking? Maybe the just need rubber bucking, older type?
4. Maybe Longbows are not as good as before anymore?

Everybody says that they are great, but in my VSR they fly much worse than BLS from medium hand. So many questions and no answers. I'm starting to freak out. Why they don't fly better than BLS? Also you maybe know...Longbows are manufactured in EU/UK? Or its just rebranded Taiwan BLS or sth like this?
Thanks guys, cheers!
500mm barrel is too long see my post above.

Sorry jest wrong person qouted
 
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