[Whiskey Whiskey]

Hello Airsoft Snipers!

So many of us use some kind of Guille Suit, Shroud, and\or Wrap. I'd love to hear the comments on the following:

• Which do you prefer Guille Suit, Shroud, or Wrap - and why?
• Do you wear or carry the Guille to the hide and why?
• Do you make your own or buy and why?
• Worst Guille tangle-up and caught story.
• Best "They never saw me" story.

Thanks Snipers!

Whiskey Whiskey

 

[Leo Greer]

I’m not a true sniper, but I do play as a DMR when I feel like it, and for my field and play style, ghillie doesn’t make any sense. I’d just look like a walking bush sticking out from a shipping container. Some folks have tried to play ghillie at our field…and it just doesn’t work. The area isn’t right.

I do occasionally play backyard style games with friends on a few acres of woods, and when I do that I’ll weave whatever foliage I have around me into my chest rig, eyepro, etc, whenever there are lulls in the momentum. It works surprisingly effectively, but def not ghillie suit level—I like full freedom of movement.

I do have couple of “never saw me” stories though. Back towards summer I was playing with my buds out in the woods, using a modded SR-25 painted to look like ambiguous forest floor. It’s only five of us, so we decide to play a little attack and defend over a densely wooded five acres, two on three. I get picked to attack and the game begins. Here’s the catch: despite our numbers and my range advantage, the wind is blowing like nuts, making it impossible to hear anyone. The woods are so dense that average visibility is maybe ten feet if you’re avoiding the larger clearings. The defenders begin knocking my team mates off right quick—everyone has multiple respawns, but the two defenders are doing a really good job of camping their designated position and playing around the concealment they have. For the life of me I can’t pick them out of the brush and my closer range team mates keep getting killed.

I decide to try a different strategy, lowering my head and army-crawling about 80 meters through the brush towards the enemy position. I’m still not sure where they are, since they’ve been moving, and one of my team mates has been eliminated. My other team mate and I stay quiet, and finally one of the defenders reveals himself by standing up from behind a tree. I’m lying in the grass and low plants, and give him a one tap in the middle of his chest. We go on to win the game after the other defender mistakes me for his fallen buddy. I later found out that it took the fallen defender a full ten minutes to spot me after I shot him—a testament to lying still and painting your rifle/using a rifle wrap!

 

[Doctor Jest]

I firmly believe there's no best ghillie design, but there are superior crafting materials. I also never use a hide, as 95% of games are too dynamic to allow for setup time to be a viable option....other than that.....whatever works for you. Over the years I've used ghillie bases, full ghillie suits, and even recon ghillie hoods but one thing they had in common was that I applied all the artificial camouflage myself to suit the fields I played on, so that meant time spent with dyes (or spray cans) tinting and colouring the hessian/jutte/rafia to match the tones I was due to encounter in play. Every single one has ample attachment points (foliage loops) for natural vegetation to be applied as nothing beats using the environment to your advantage - generally in a 60:40 or even 70:30 ratio.

For materials, I use acrylic sprays by Montana and then Haloscreen or Nanoscreen, and then natural jutte and hessian. The material that Stalker suits are made from can be a good addition (this is the same suit KM copied) as can ConCamo elements.

 

[Whiskey Whiskey]

I’m not a true sniper, but I do play as a DMR when I feel like it, and for my field and play style, ghillie doesn’t make any sense. I’d just look like a walking bush sticking out from a shipping container. Some folks have tried to play ghillie at our field…and it just doesn’t work. The area isn’t right.

I do occasionally play backyard style games with friends on a few acres of woods, and when I do that I’ll weave whatever foliage I have around me into my chest rig, eyepro, etc, whenever there are lulls in the momentum. It works surprisingly effectively, but def not ghillie suit level—I like full freedom of movement.

I do have couple of “never saw me” stories though. Back towards summer I was playing with my buds out in the woods, using a modded SR-25 painted to look like ambiguous forest floor. It’s only five of us, so we decide to play a little attack and defend over a densely wooded five acres, two on three. I get picked to attack and the game begins. Here’s the catch: despite our numbers and my range advantage, the wind is blowing like nuts, making it impossible to hear anyone. The woods are so dense that average visibility is maybe ten feet if you’re avoiding the larger clearings. The defenders begin knocking my team mates off right quick—everyone has multiple respawns, but the two defenders are doing a really good job of camping their designated position and playing around the concealment they have. For the life of me I can’t pick them out of the brush and my closer range team mates keep getting killed.

I decide to try a different strategy, lowering my head and army-crawling about 80 meters through the brush towards the enemy position. I’m still not sure where they are, since they’ve been moving, and one of my team mates has been eliminated. My other team mate and I stay quiet, and finally one of the defenders reveals himself by standing up from behind a tree. I’m lying in the grass and low plants, and give him a one tap in the middle of his chest. We go on to win the game after the other defender mistakes me for his fallen buddy. I later found out that it took the fallen defender a full ten minutes to spot me after I shot him—a testament to lying still and painting your rifle/using a rifle wrap!

Great perspective and great story. Too many players today don't know or don't use the good old low crawl, but let's face it, the best concealment is usually on the ground - grass, brush, leaves, even dirt that matches your uniform color. Thanks for sharing that Leo!

 

[Whiskey Whiskey]

I firmly believe there's no best ghillie design, but there are superior crafting materials. I also never use a hide, as 95% of games are too dynamic to allow for setup time to be a viable option....other than that.....whatever works for you. Over the years I've used ghillie bases, full ghillie suits, and even recon ghillie hoods but one thing they had in common was that I applied all the artificial camouflage myself to suit the fields I played on, so that meant time spent with dyes (or spray cans) tinting and colouring the hessian/jutte/rafia to match the tones I was due to encounter in play. Every single one has ample attachment points (foliage loops) for natural vegetation to be applied as nothing beats using the environment to your advantage - generally in a 60:40 or even 70:30 ratio.

For materials, I use acrylic sprays by Montana and then Haloscreen or Nanoscreen, and then natural jutte and hessian. The material that Stalker suits are made from can be a good addition (this is the same suit KM copied) as can ConCamo elements.

I agree Doctor Jest, the Guille has to be environment specific, and if your environment doesn't suit it, no Guille at all. I'm going to check out your advice on paints, as always thanks for the great advice.

 

[Doctor Jest]

I would say that it's worth checking out haloscreen and nanoscreen but that stuff is expensive!

 

[RonSwanson]

It very much depends on the field environment, personal gameplay style and gamemodes.

I tend to lean on the side of no ghillie as UK games tend to be rolling objectives across a large area and most fields have enough natural cover to use to hide behind easily. Some of the US gameplay I've seen though seems like fixed objectives and respawns more which would suit someone more willing to stay in one location longer.

In rolling objectives games I find once the AEG/assault players have fallen back to respawn the enemy team tends to just rush past quickly ignoring the snipers as they know it makes them less useful to the team as a whole.

I've had a game end as we planted the bomb in the enemy base and an enemy ghillie sniper crawl out a bush about 10m from me and he was useless as he was surrounded so wasn't firing for the last 5 minutes.

Also nothing funnier than a ghillie clearly not aware that his suit makes them stick out as they move around or you see a big bushy head sticking out over or around a fallen tree as it makes a bigger target.

 

[Doctor Jest]

I'm actually looking at a minimal/no ghillie solution and normally I'd use the old-fashioned DPM (Mine are custom-made ripstop garments I had made years ago) but I fancy something more contemporary. The ConCamo pattern looks intriguing but it's out of stock EVERYWHERE that I can see (unless you're a midget) and nothing else really piques my interest right now.....

 

[Leo Greer]

Some of the US gameplay I've seen though seems like fixed objectives and respawns more which would suit someone more willing to stay in one location longer.

Most of it is fixed, which does aid camping in certain scenarios, but I find the games over here (my field to be certain, others I‘ve watched gameplay) tend to be very fast paced with lots of movement, and folks are back in the exact same spots within 30 seconds of getting hit. which means that if you’re a ghillie sniper in that bush 60 yards off the right flank, then folks will just figure out where you are by who‘s calling hit, and then either eliminate you or move away and ignore.

My field has a few spots that provide flanking positions behind excellent cover, and if a team can play those few shipping containers right, they can almost always win, since you cover: the main objective (some of the time), respawning players, and the wide open area between spawn and objective The main camping that I do and that other players do is based around leveraging those containers to our advantage. If you play it right, the enemy knows exactly where you are, but they can’t do a thing about it.

…and to be honest I don’t think American players (mostly young teens over here) have the brainpower for rolling objectives. We tried it once with a relatively simple game (collect briefcase bomb and key, bring both to your spawn, bring both to a separate location and defend for a limited time to win) and the results were… hilarious.

 

[Whiskey Whiskey]

Also nothing funnier than a ghillie clearly not aware that his suit makes them stick out as they move around or you see a big bushy head sticking out over or around a fallen tree as it makes a bigger target.

Yes, this is where I think Guille suits can be more of a detriment than a Guille Shroud, which can be rolled up and slung in a bag or back pack. The shrouds are enough to cover head, shoulders, and top of back which is normally enough if you don't get flanked. I see the shroud as the logical compromise between no Guille and full Guille suit. Use it if it makes sense, leave it packed away if you don't.

 

[Whiskey Whiskey]

I'm actually looking at a minimal/no ghillie solution and normally I'd use the old-fashioned DPM (Mine are custom-made ripstop garments I had made years ago) but I fancy something more contemporary. The ConCamo pattern looks intriguing but it's out of stock EVERYWHERE that I can see (unless you're a midget) and nothing else really piques my interest right now.....

Arcturus has a make your own collection of products that might interest you:

Amazon.com : Arcturus Ghillie Rifle Wrap for Sniper, Hunting, or Airsoft Rifle | Easily Camouflage Gun Wrap in Ghillie Suit Material (Dry Grass) : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Arcturus Ghillie Suit Thread - Lightweight Synthetic Ghillie Yarn to Build Your Own Ghillie Suit (Woodland Mix) : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Arcturus Ghillie Suit Netting Material | 5' X 9' with 1.25'' Holes | Camo Netting to Make Your Own Ghillie Suits, Ghillie Gun Cover (Sniper Wrap), Hunting Gear, and Camouflage Sport Netting. : Sports & Outdoors

 

[Doctor Jest]

Thanks for the link but I have all the bases and garnish I need for any eventuality 👍 I was referring to camouflage trousers and shirt in a particular pattern.

I’ve been making my own for 20 years or so, which translates to many hours working out my preferences. I just finished a universal holster that can comfortably accept any of my sidearm choices as nothing was on the market.....I am extremely demanding when it comes to gear.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Talking of which, I should do some pictures. Long gone are the days when I built from scratch (I don't have the machinery access) or custom ordered (I don't have the cash lol) but I do like to take an existing base and modify it to fit my purpose. Simple modifications, but hopefully well thought-out!

 

[Whiskey Whiskey]

Talking of which, I should do some pictures. Long gone are the days when I built from scratch (I don't have the machinery access) or custom ordered (I don't have the cash lol) but I do like to take an existing base and modify it to fit my purpose. Simple modifications, but hopefully well thought-out!

Nothing beats custom made, but cost and time can sometimes limit just how custom you can make it. I'm looking for a balance between effectiveness, ease of wear\deployment, and cost. Obviously that all comes down to a lot of personal variables - play style, fields you play at, environment (for me mostly high desert), and how much free time you can devote to it.

 

[Crius]

100% Woodland airsoft sniper player. No matter if I use my VSR10 or my SR25.
The best camouflage is the one that is comfortable, practical, blends you successfully with surroundings and enemy can't or is very hard to detect you. A good "working" ghillie will make you invisible. A ghillie is just a tool, you need more things too...

1) Ghillie suit.
2) Wearing the ghillie.
3) Homemade, old school made ghillie.
4) Never had such issues.
5) There are such incidents in every game.

For example: A group of 3 enemies stopped 1m-2m away in front of me. They were talking, waiting and looking for enemies. I was just watching them with my pistol at my hand. After some minutes I decided to move & jump out without shooting them, just pointing my pistol on them.
They asked me <<why didn't shot us?>>
My answer: <<because this was not my goal...>> I was testing my ghillie.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Nothing beats custom made, but cost and time can sometimes limit just how custom you can make it. I'm looking for a balance between effectiveness, ease of wear\deployment, and cost. Obviously that all comes down to a lot of personal variables - play style, fields you play at, environment (for me mostly high desert), and how much free time you can devote to it.

Most of the time I just customise an existing base and that nets me all the results I want, with the cost and time I'm willing to invest into the project. One of the best ghillie bases I ever used with an army surplus DPM set of tanker overalls. Had loads of pockets in accessible places, was very tough, very cheap and even had kneepads.....a couple of hours adding some angled pockets to access when I was prone and then foliage loops and some garnish made it brilliant.......the number of times I got trampled whilst hiding or managed to grab someone's ankle for a surrender kill was ridiculous.

 

[Trash]

I'm glad this came up.

This is why I wanted to get into sniping. I am a LAZY SOB. So I wanted to learn how to hide properly and cause trouble from a distance. I am mostly 90% Fieldcraft 10% Tradecraft .

I will first explain why I chose what I chose in your poll: You suit should 100% depend on the mission or your play style. There are so many factors that come into play with this, There is no one size fits all.

Ghillie suits are a tool. just like all tools you can easily use them wrong. These suits come to use from a old scottish/irish history. Gillie were gamesmen, long story short they were servants to catch deer, boar,... ETC to then release for the king or lord to hunt. long story short they did all the work. What they did was come up with these suits to basically hide in the woods and grab the animal when they got close. ( I may be off on a little I'm going from memory here, a wiki search might give a better explanation). So these suits not only needed to trick animals but the person in them needed to know how to use them. Imagine if a deer thinking its alone sees a bush start walking at them, there gonna run. So movement is as important as how it looks and blends.

Now lets me info dump about human eye sight. The human eye is a lot weaker than deer, wolfs, coyote,... ETC. Although our eyes are weaker our brains are VERY good at picking out patterns, and one of the most recognizable patters is the human shape. Think head to shoulders to arms, you can easily pick that out in the woods. I have attached some pictures that are very clearly human but think about looking at those positions about 20-30ft away. It will be hard to pick them out if you didn't know they were there. A-TACS and Viper Hood . This is what the suit is supposed to do. Break up the human shape.

We now have a idea as to where they come from and what they are trying to do lets talk about systems. I personally like to use Tactical Concealment systems, there not cheap and used by the US military. I don't mind paying $$$ for quality. Should you do the same? well that's up to you. I don't recommend it if its your first system or your looking to get into it. Being faithful to TC I don't have a full Ghillie, commonly called gorilla suits. I like to use Viper hoods and Cobra Hoods. These two are amazing if you are looking for something to break up that shape as well as being mobile. They are hyped up as the "assaulters Ghillie". You can wear these and cover them with VEG or Jute while still being able to access almost if not all of your kit.

"Holy shit this a lot and way off topic to the subject" your right I kind of went off here so let me give you a quick TLDR in what I found. The lightest, easiest to build and maintain system that will properly break up the human figure. Is what I gravitate too. My Play style is much more of a sit and wait. I will engage in scout recon only if I know the AO well enough to conceal my movements as needed. I am also currently looking into a Designated killer kit where ill focus more on longer angles and flanking a suppressed enemy. I am sure a different camo or concealment system will be better than what I already have.

If any one has questions about how I build or what I like to do as well as pics please let me know. I am a firm believer of being a pipeline for information rather than a filing cabinet.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Ghillies originally didn't wear what we would today recognise as a ghillie suit, they wore individual tartans tailored to each specific estate. It wasn't until 1916 that the Lovat Scouts (drawn from Highland estate workers, gamekeepers, and stalkers) wore what we would typically associate with the term - they were also the first sniper unit.

I'd actually avoid the typical "full" ghillie suits in favour of leaf suits - if the environment permits. Military suits are, by design, multi-environment suits with different demands - specifically range of engagement and leaf suits provide greater concealment at closer ranges, at the expense of flexibility. Check out companies such as Stalker, Jack Pyke, North Mountain Gear, and Arcturus. Failing that Ebay has a massive selection of cheap suits that act as perfectly adequate bases without spending much money, and you can occasionally come across Russian military leaf suits by Leshy and Voin.

Typical British Military M.O. is to use a ghillie base with neutral hessian/raffia and a host of foliage loops, then attach natural vegetation to suit - the usual term is "Cobra Hood" or "Viper Hood" or even "Recon Hood" but they all refer to a base garment that allows customisation (Such as those made by TCS) but there are many, many companies out there copying each other. I've used Arktis in the past to great success, Webtex and Giena Tactics.

Another option is a Russian Sniper Suit such as these from Grey Shop or those from ANA Tactical.

In short, there are many choices depending on playstyle.

Garnish is the real consideration and I was always told either 60:40 or even 70:30 Natural to Artificial. Natural should be fairly self explanatory but there are dozens of options for artificial garnish and whilst I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying from Skirmshop, they do have a representative selection which includes the "new standard" Haloscreen and Nanoscreen.

I'm not going to get into pattern management and light reflection and absorption, this video covers it in greater detail:

 

[Trash]

I'm not going to get into pattern management and light reflection and absorption, this video covers it in greater detail

Thank you for this post. I always love learning more!!!

I do like those elastic attachment points, those will really help with the natural veg. I can see the flaw when it comes to the hoods I am talking about when it comes to it. The wide grid requires some finesse to get the veg on in the field. Normally my suits are mostly synthetic, I like to use the synthetic yarn and when I am in leaves I try to throw them on myself. I find that they tend to stick to the loose fibers and that helps fill in the gaps for me. The wife hates it because they only seem to fall off when I have the hood in the house.

When it comes to light reflection and absorption isn't that a little much for our needs? ( I haven't had a opportunity to watch your video yet its blocked on my work laptop)

Also Doc would it possible if you couple put some photos up of what you have for suits? I have a OP coming up in July am I am looking for "inspiration/ different techniques" to try out. Google image search is awful when you try to look up photos.

 

[Doctor Jest]

I had the same problems with that style of mesh so I just divided the lengths up into three and sewed it to the base - yes, you end up with millions of loops

When it comes to light reflection and absorption isn't that a little much for our needs? ( I haven't had a opportunity to watch your video yet its blocked on my work laptop)

I would say yes for the most part. It's nice to understand how it works and LCS gets some stellar results with his suits but for the average airsoft sniper, I don't think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by ignoring it. We managed for years without haloscreen and nanoscreen after all!

I'll try to get some piccies up, my camera is a pile of shonk so the quality will be variable. Whereabouts are you for reference? I am happy to share photos, but if you're not in a similar geographic area I'll have to dig out some older snaps to see if I have anything useful.