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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everybody :)

I currently have a striker as02 and I make it very amazing: short, precise, silent, can rise 0.4 g at 60 meters at less than 1j and now is time to make a good sidearm that can match it and can help me in situations where someone with a full-auto fight me and/or alternatively can be a good primary in CQB situations.

Firstly I look for the new AAP-01 but honestly I don't like to much gas pistol: are to expensive and not so constant for me and everytime I should refill the gas so... I prefer bolt or AEG. I also look to build a good electric DMR but for now will be to much expensive and I know very little about AEG.

For these and also other reasons, I start looking for a electric submachine replica and my attention fall in the iconic P90.

My goal is to achieve a good P90 that could be fast and silent: I don't want to reach high distances (50 meters could be enough) (my limit is 0.99J).
My other goal is that this project should be very cheap: my max budget should be about 150/200 Euros (I'm poor :): )

I was looking for CYMA, CYBERGUN/FN-HERSTAL or JG's P90 and some upgrades that can fit my goals but how I said I'm not good with AEG and I know very little about them.

So please: can you suggest me a list with a good P90 replica with some nice upgrades?
I know that I ask a lot but will be very helpful for me.

Thanks in advice :)
 

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Idk which base gun would be better, but look at

Lap the barrel
Maple Leaf 2021 bucking, 70°+
Make an SS-nub
Make barrel spacers
Use an 11.1
Shoot .25g-.30g

Other than that, you'll probably want other recommendations, but the 11.1 will reduce cycle time which makes the gun quieter in the end.
Also, most of this stuff is just DIY stuff save for the bucking and battery, so you should just do it anyways.
 

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For barrel spacers, you can use painters tape wrapped around your inner barrel to make it snug in the outer barrel, but for my M4 which has an outer barrel with the inner diameter of 9mm, I just use Teflon plumbing tape wrapped on my barrel instead, as the gap is much smaller.

As for the SS-nub, it's a nub I sorta invented that performs very well, costs little to nothing, and works in most any gun with varying differences.
I have a tutorial type thing in my signature if you wanna see how to do it, it's rather easy.
 

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Barrel spacers do not really work in a p90, due to how the body is built.

Fill the spaces inside the stock with foam or something that will absorb sound. Make sure not to over stuff it or the gearbox, hopup, and battery will not fit.

Its going to sound louder then it is when you shoot as the gearbox is right next to your ear when you fire.

I strongly suggest one of these triggers. Will greatly help with issues that the p90 has. P90 M-Trigger Gen 4 — Shadow Regime Airsoft

Feeding will be an issue. It is with most of them. * no clue about the krytac, don't own one.*
The diy fix requires epoxy and sanding. Or you get the laylax mag catch. LayLax Custom P90 Enhanced Magazine Catch
 

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I might be able to give feedback on this. I own both the Cyma P90 and the Krytac P90. Basically the two opposite end of the P90 spectrum. The Krytac P90 hands down is the superior platform. However it’s 450USD (400 USD on sale) compared to 145USD (115 USD on sale) for the Cyma one.

Given your budget, the Krytac P90 isn’t even on the table of options, so let’s talk about the Cyma P90

My major challenge to the platform was the mag feeding, historically the P90 mag had a lot of issues. The mag or the gun won’t feed/receive the bb, leading to skipped shots and jams. If you run any of the low capacity mags that hold 50 to 70bbs, you won’t encounter any issues, but if you want a reasonable about of bbs…that’s where your problem begins.

The defacto king of P90 mags before Krytac came out was made by MAG (the brand name is mag, it’s confusing I know). However, my Cyma P90 with MAG P90 mags won’t reliability feed beyond 70 bb capacity (the mag should hold 140 bbs). The Krytac one with the Krytac P90 mags, as far as my testing (500 shots) had zero feeding issues (the mag holds 200 bbs). Interestingly the Krytac P90 could use the MAG P90 mag without any feeding issues either. Thought my research, it appears the “newer” MAG p90 mags quality control is different than a decade ago. The springs are too strong leading to it adding too much spring pressure against the nozzle and hopup chamber. I have yet to fix this, but mainly because I don’t have time to tinker on the Cyma P90, but I will get around in the coming months. I’ve heard people cutting the spring to reduce the tension, but that’s a road I have yet to cross.

What I would recommend you get with your budget (I realize you quoting in euros implies it doesn’t make sense for you to use evike or amped as your retailer, but I’m just using it as a price guide and so there is no confusion on the product).

Cyma P90 (145USD)

3x Krytac P90 Mags (95 USD)

As your finance changes (get these upgrades in these order):

Maple leaf MR 60 degree bucking (10 USD)

Maple leaf nub (7 USD)

PDI 6.01 247mm barrel (67 USD)

Plazma had mention shadow regimes trigger system, it’s alright…but it’s still a bullpup system, the pull length will always be long. I haven’t used shadow regimes trolley system, but the only thing I could see it offer is a smoother pull, but seeing how it’s just 3d printed plastic…and not metal rails, it won’t feel THAT much different than the trigger system on the cyma one. The one benefit you get is a micro switch system rather than traditional trigger contacts, which over time will carbonize on you. You're looking at around a 80 USD upgrade for that, if you're going down this route...that's half the P90 price!

As an aside if you plan to upgrade the Cyma P90 fully, you can get the same performance out of it as the Krytac P90, but the cost would be exactly the same. In which case, I would recommend you get the Krytac from the get go.

Hopefully this helps, my Cyma P90 experience was a long and frustrating one, so hopefully this avoids any of the headache for you.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you run any of the low capacity mags that hold 50 to 70bbs
To be honest I prefer monofiliar mags so I'll for sure use mags with 50/70 bbs

By the way I was searching a bit and I found these things on TaiwanGun.
Let me know your opinions please and if it will work for you or not:
  • Base: P90 by Double Bell 76.56 Euros
    (have fast spring change system)
  • Gears: Steel 13:1 by CYMA 21.52 Euros
  • Motor: 40.000 rpm by Guarder 36.13 Euros
  • HopUp: Mr Hop 70° by Maple Leaf 10.00 Euros
  • Spring: M85 by Guarder 8.64 Euros
  • Bushing: Steel Bushing by Guarder 12.96 Euros
Opinions? Other things that should I buy/change?
 

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@mrFonzie

I don’t know anything about monofiliar mags, so use at your own risk. The OEM cyma p90 mags fed perfectly fine too, and if memory is correct…it’s around the 60 70 bb capacity. You may not care too much about bb capacity now, but if you plan to use it for cqb…that double in capacity will be a big deal. The P90 is a very unnatural reload and would often take a bit longer than a M4 platform. In cqb it’s all about speed.

As far as your links:

-I don’t know the double bell, stick with the cyma, it’s tried and true (unfortunately it’s out of stock atm):


Their mags (also out of stock):


review:



I heard good things about the kings arm p90, but I never used it. It’s also over double the price…
But you get a quick change spring system.

-I use shs gears and shs motor (which should be very cheap on aliexpress at half the price, but it would take a few weeks to ship). However I don’t feel upgrades in this department would yield any massive results other than a slight rps bump.

-Maple Leaf MR…but the 60 degree, you won’t be high enough on the velocity for the 70 degree to make sense. At SP85 spring, I would even say go with the 50 degree one.

-I’m a fan of guarder springs…so…that’s a go

-I have guarder steel bushings too…so that’s a go as well



As an aside, I would upgrade the barrel after the bucking (I would say do it together), before diving into gearbox upgrades. PDI or Laylax barrel

As I mentioned before, if you plan to do A LOT of upgrades, consider just getting the krytac P90, it’s way more expensive yes…but after you price everything out, the krytac P90 is clearly better at the same cost

Krytac P90 reviews:




@Plazmaburn

You mention epoxy and sanding as a feed fix. Do you have the source or what needs to be done? Out of a matter of pride I want to get the Cyma P90 working with MAG P90 mag. I know we had a long conversation about this in private, but I get so distracted with projects. Plus, I left the gearbox stock so I can test it with the Krytac mag so I know for future reference (such as this post). I’ll fully upgrade everything soon thought.



At this point I’m a little confused where the problem is:

Cyma P90: Mag P90 mag – feeding problems

Krytac P90 mag – feeds fine

Krytac P90: Mag P90 mag – feeds fine

Krytac P90 mag – feeds fine

In addition to this, the Cyma P90 feeds fine with the Mag P90 mag if the bb count is low (70bb). Which leads me to believe there is something about the interface between the Cyma P90 and the Mag P90 mag, what I found online about too strong a spring is true, or Krytac is just a more robust system.
 
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It's a multi-faceted problem. Part of the problem is straight up Midcap Syndrome. The other part is with the feeding system itself. It's going to vary from gun to gun. Some will have it far worse than others.

On mine, I did not have too much issue with midcap syndrome, but I also completely rebuilt the entire internals. Lonex compression, siegetek DSG gear set 20:1 (might be short stroked, don't really remember), m150, warhead 52k brushless, prowin chamber, modded masada nub, a basic gate fet (dont remeber which, its tiny and has mechanical switch debounce), the m-trigger v2 or 3 not sure. I think it has a Maple leaf barrel in it, or it is a lambda, r-hopped. 11.1 2000 mah. Swapped the stock mag catch for the Laylax, and swapped the trigger out for the Angel Custom.

To deal with the midcap syndrome you will need to trim the mag springs or pray they weaken some. Or figure out a way to get the tappet plate spring to be stronger. The issues with feeding is attributed to the magazine not sitting far enough down on the feed prong. You can make the prong bigger or build up the mag catch to push the mag farther down on the prong. The laylax mag catch does this, at least in the 3 p90s I have done it on.

No real source, just my own experience with them and what I found to work.
 

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@Plazmaburn

Given what you said, at this point I’m going to fully upgrade my Cyma P90 with all the parts I have and recheck the mag compatibility. If it “self-fixes” itself, I won’t worry about it anymore. I do believe what you said about variance from gun to gun is on point. It doesn’t appear to be a universal problem.

I don’t believe it’s a mag catch problem in my case. I had tested it by strapping down the mag to the P90 and nothing changed. The mag catch won’t apply anywhere as much pressure as I did during the test.

I do have a new nozzle (shs) and tappet plate (guarder) among my parts to upgrade. I had not considered upgrading the tappet plate spring. This actually sounds very promising.

As an aside, I know midcap syndrome can be the result of a weak tappet spring, but what is the issue that can arise if the tappet spring is too strong? I never really fully understood the midcap syndrome problem. Is it the nozzle not sealing with the bucking fast enough (which then as you suggested, stronger spring should fix it)? Or is it because there is too much space between the hopup chamber and nozzle, whereby it gets misaligned when a strong perpendicular force is applied to it (that force being the bb being forced on top of it)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This will be my idea: could work?

My Goals:
  • High-Rof (at least 25 bb/s)
  • Silent
  • Can rise 0.30g bbs or higher at 0.99J
  • At least 50 meters of distance
N.B.: I'll buy the hop up in another moment not now

Let me know your opinions: I know very little about AEG so please need help ahhaha

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@mrFonzie

As far as your goals:

-High-rof

The correct pairing is high speed gears with high torque motor OR high torque gears with high speed motor. You currently have high speed gear paired with high speed motor, the system will burn out and your trigger response will be very sluggish. Therefore, select a high torque motor if you plan to keep your 13:1 shs gear. 25 rps is a struggle for someone with no AEG teching experience. On my AEG, I use 13:1 shs gear and ASG infinity Motor (28T). With this setup I get 22-24rps. I COULD go with a ~24T motor to break that 25rps, but I value my trigger response.

-silent

The P90 is relatively loud, you will need to use dampening foam in the body. You will “feel” it’s even louder than it is because your ear will be right next to the gearbox as compared to a M4 platform

-Hop ability

Get Maple leaf MR 50 degree, your joule rating is so low that a 70 degree wouldn’t be right for you. You might be tempted to get the 70 degree because sniper platforms shoot at a high velocity and therefore we use the harder buckings. However your country doesn’t allow for those velocity because of your joule limit (sniper shoot at 2.8J, you're aiming to shoot at 1J). Therefore, get the 50 degree stuff.

-50 meters

Maybe someone else can chime in, but 1J platform going 50 meters might be a struggle. You should realistically expect 35 to 40 meters without arching your shots. It’s really a matter of physics here



I would advise against the double bell P90…wait and get the cyma (or use another vendor and get the cyma 060). The echo, jg, and various other P90 variants were not good P90 platforms. I haven’t even heard of a double bell p90 until today. Don’t roll your dice on an unknown.



I would also advise you to get lonex, guarder, or shs for your air compression internals (more so lonex or guarder). I know as an Italian you might like softair, but they are too much of an unknown. I would stick with parts that are known to perform.
 

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@mrFonzie

I don't know what you're trying to say... "rise high pressures"?

You can either pair high speed gears with high torque motor OR high torque gear with high speed motor

Explaining why high speed gears with high speed motor Or high torque gear with high torque motor is wrong would be a massive post. Other threads here does a better job at it
 

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Gears do not do anything for pressure. That is strictly the spring and your piston. Gears only multiply the torque output of the motor.

The more torque the motor produces the slower the motors top speed is. The faster the motor the less torque it has.

In your case i would just swap the motor and leave the gears alone. With an m85 there is very little spring tension.
 

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@mrFonzie

As far as your goals:

-High-rof

The correct pairing is high speed gears with high torque motor OR high torque gears with high speed motor. You currently have high speed gear paired with high speed motor, the system will burn out and your trigger response will be very sluggish.
Depending on the motor you use, some high speeds develop enough torque to pull 13:1s. Namely, I am talking about the SHS high speeds. SHS motors are a bit weird though, since both their high speed and high torque drift towards being balance motors.
 
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