[fuzzywolly]

Ok, so today I decided to tweak with my rifle and installed the PCS (polar star concave spacer). I took out the pdi nubbin as I wanted to try out my pcs due to problems I was having with my hop up.

Turns out the problem is not so much the nubbin I am using, but its the screws themselves.

You see, after I adjust the hop up screws to that sweet spot it goes something like this....

-First shot: Straight, dead on, just beautiful.
-Second shot: Same as the first
-Third shot: Way right
-Fourth shot plus rest of shots: Way right

I could not figure out the problem for quite some time, and after around 2,000 bbs put through it, I think I figured it out.

I realized that when I would adjust the screws, it was way to easy, and the screws seemed loose. They would turn with just the slightest force. This brought me to the conclusion, that after a few shots, the vibration from the rifle, causes the screws to turn themselves, readjusting the hop up.

I am thinking about trying some screw tightner substance that keeps the screws from loosening up so easily. I will still be able to adjust them, but it will take alittle more force.

I want to run out to home depot or true value today, but I wanted to know what kind of screw tightner you would recommend. Keep in mind I do not want it to be too hard to adjust, just something to keep it from loosening up so easily.

Thanks

Fuzzy

 

[woogie]

Try some teflon tape man. That is what I had to do with mine.

This way you don't have to fight with them to move them, or if you change a bucking or what not and need to tweek.

 

[fuzzywolly]

Alright thanks. How many times did you wrap it around? I would assume once as not much should be needed, as the screws and the hole is very small.

This sounds like a much better plan than going with the screw tightner gluey stuff

Were you having the same problem I had. Its been a pain in the ass for me for a while now. I thought I just was adjusting it wrong....lol

 

[woogie]

Yeah my one screw was really loose, then again I didn't tighten them up before I tried to push the bolt forward So my one screw is really messed up at the end and I am unable to get the allen key into it, so I am now using a pointed file to adjust it.

I just went once around the scew to get it to hold really tight. Just make sure that you wrap the tape the correct direction. If you do it backwords the tape will peel off when you adjust it. That and I suppose it wouldn't matter if you did to many wraps, as the screw holes will peel off the stuff that wont fit.

 

[fuzzywolly]

Dude, I did the same thing. Busted my one screw due to the fact that I had the bolt back and for some stupid reason I pulled the trigger and the cylinder head slammed into the hop up screws.

I had to get some of the PDI repair kits as the screws were all bent out of shape.

Anyways, wouldn't the tape peel as I might need to turn it one way, and then maybe back the other way later?

 

[woogie]

Yeah that is true as well.. hmm. .. But once it is up inside the threaded area I would think it would be ok. That and if it starts to hang down just grab a needle nose and pluck the extra out.

 

[fuzzywolly]

Ok, so I did the teflon mod. Man, those screws are just so tiny. Anyways, the first couple of times I did it, the teflon tape just all shriveled up to the top. So I did it again and now it should be in there good. Alittle came up and was hanging out, and I just used the allen wrench to take it out, but there should be enough inside to do the job. If not, I get to do it all over again yay! Wish I could test it out right now, but its too late and darkness is upon us.

P.S. I swear if I get it shooting great, and then all of a sudden shots to the right again, I will cry :

 

[fuzzywolly]

Just got done testing out the rifle this morning. After two hours of adjusting, dissembling, reassembling, changing buckings, nubbings, etc. etc. still no luck.

It started off with me just tweaking the screws to adjust the hop up correctly. Then wild shots all over the place. So I checked the bucking, then decided to switch it. I literally put everything together perfectly. Everything aligned, so I thought I was ready to go. The bbs decided not to feed this time, so I took it apart again. A new problem came up when the magazine catch decided to fling a few of its pieces around. The outer barrel assembly and mag catch got stuck to the stock. After a few minutes of fiddling with that, I got that apart. So I went to work on the hop up chamber. Then the outer (largest) o ring on the hop up chamber decided to snap. So I got a new one, and final one from my repair kit. I put the inner barrel and hop up back into the outer barrel. When I slid the cylinder in, the rug on my carpet decided to stick to the hop up chamber, and got jammed up pretty good. A few minutes to get the carpet out, and I was on my way again. Went outside, took some shots, and still jamming up. So I decided to call it a day, after around 2 hours of my time, 300 rounds, and three dissembles and reassembles of the rifle.

I guess not everyday is a good day

Edit: I just could not quit on the rifle just yet. So I did some more tweaking, and now my magazine catch broke. I had a spare so I dropped that one in. Then the screw in the magazine catch stripped so now I have a wobbly magazine catch, that can barely hold in the magazine. Not to mention, after TWO more hours of fiddling with the rifle, I still have not solved the problem. It seems the rifle wants to fling some plastic left now, rather than to the right. :-/

Edit Edit:

Ok, two more hours of tweaking, and still sparatic shots all over the place.

Here is what I know is not the problem

1. Nubbin: I changed it four times
2. Bucking: Changed it four times as well, and its aligned correctly, no doubt there
3. BB weight: Changed it many times
4. Barrel vibration: I added a few more spacers

What might be the problem
1. Spring: This might sound odd, but after taking some shots, I noticed the consistency was not there. This is the stock spring that came with my rifle over two years ago. Maybe its worn down. Not to mention, the consistency of a clone rifle spring is probably very very bad. This could result in the sparatic shots. Each bb is propelled by a different amount of fps, resulting in inconsistent shots.
2. The hop up adjustment screws: I was pretty sure I fixed this, so I doubt this is still the problem. They are in there tight.

What to you guys think? I am leaning towards the spring. Its inconsistent fps output could cause the bbs to go all over the place.

Example:
shot 1: 387 fps
shot 2: 367 fps
shot 3: 378 fps

I do not own a chrono so these are just examples. Any thoughts on this?

Keep in mind I have adjusted the hop up in every way possible and have done this for over 30 some hours. Maybe more. Its driving me crazy. :'(

 

[woogie]

*Hands fuzzy a beer*

Take a few days break man. Come back when you are not so pissed at the rifle and you will work better, trust me

I would say possibly the spring or the cylinder nozzle.

If the spring is old, like you said, it is probably about done. Try a new one and see what happens.

Is the cylinder nozzle nice and smooth? Or is there a burr or something at the tip? This could be causing the nozzle to scrape the ammo and cause it to fly all crazy like.

Are you still using the SCS nub? I didn't think they would work in the PDI style hopup. Try using the stock rubber tube thing, see if you get better results.

 

[fuzzywolly]

Haha, I decided to take the next few days off after this crazyness It will give me some time to get an order together for some stuff I need, including some more bbs, and a new spring.

By cylinder nozzle, I am guessing that is another term for cylinder head? If so, its a laylax cylinder head that looks like its in pretty good shape to me. But I can check it out again later when I dissemble it all again.

The spring is very very old, and that is what I am thinking is the problem. It just seems to be putting out sparatic fps ranges, so that could be causing the major inconsistency.

As for the nub. I tried using the pdi nub, and when the sparatic shots occurred, I immediately thought the nub was the problem. Switched over to the scs, same thing happened. Switched back to the pdi nubbin for now. So the nub is not the problem.

Thanks for the input. At this point, its got to be the spring. Nothing else makes any sense. Heck, I even switched out the hop up arms for my spares and same thing happened.

Ill keep you posted in the upcoming weeks. It should take around 8 days for my order to come from airsoftgi, and I have not even placed it yet.

That will give me some down time. Otherwise, I see myself throwing the rifle into a lake or something

 

[woogie]

LOL ..... well just make sure you wear a life jacket first.... lol


But yeah I was talking about the cylinder head. Because you did what I did to mine, so it could be the scrapes on the nozzle head that could be causing some problems.

 

[fuzzywolly]

Haha, safety first I guess

I checked the nozzle for any damage. It had alittle scrape on one side of the nozzle, so I put in the old one I had lying around. Still the same exact results. Dont worry, I did not spend three hours on it. Just trying to identify the problem so I know what I need to buy in the upcoming days here. I told myself not to try and tweak with it, as its my day off from that

Anyways, same results. Alot curving to the left. What makes me think its the spring is that some bbs curve left and down, and some curve left and up. Then one decides to fling itself to the right. I am guessing the different fps outputs are causing the inconsistency. I am curious to try another spring in the near future.

 

[woogie]

I hope the spring works for ya.

Stupid question.... is the barrel clean?? I know I have forgot to do this from time to time and couldn't figure why I couldn't hit anything.

 

[fuzzywolly]

I was just thinking about the barrel in general. Whether it could have a scratch or something, but looky what I found:

http://shredderscs.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=read&action=display&thread=87

Quote from text: No matter how well aligned your hop-up is, even if you use an SCS or other nubs, the best bucking, the most consistent bb diameter and the best barrel in the world, you will get very inconsistent groupings!

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[woogie]

Sounds like you got her figured out now! Woo hoo

 

[fuzzywolly]

Actually he uses the scs nubbin in the pdi chamber. He just meant that even if you use a great nubbing such as the pdi nub, or scs nub, best bucking, perfectly aligned, etc. etc. you will still have consistency problems when you are having various fps outputs.

http://shredderscs.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pdi&action=display&thread=46

He got it to work by using some glue like substance. Scroll down the page.

Edit: Here is a conversation about a problem that is the same as mine:

"I've done that b4 except that i make it 4 pieces 2 for rear & 2 for front, mayb it will work. The strange thing is after i adjusted the hop up screws, the hop effect is very minimal for few shots lets say....5-6 shots & then suddenly the bbs went straight up like over hop even though i didn't adjust it. It is very weird since then as if the hop up doesn't sits properly. I think of it like a self adjust. I thought mayb the 2 screws is too loose causing it to adjust itself or the hop up lever spring that push the levers down is weak or inconsistant bbs weight. Go me puzzle at that time till now."

Snake, ive met the same problem. the screws tend to loose as you fire, dont ask me why, but they do. In my case i was geting more hop on one side (left) the more shooting ive done.

Solution: Lockite or any glue for screws will do. it worked wonders for me. The adjusting is not as smooth as it was, but it stoped geting more hop after few shots.

i hope this helps you.

They were having the same problem. So far, going with the teflon tape, it seems to work somewhat. Can't really say how well since I do not have consistent fps output. But if the spring ends up not being the problem, perhaps I just need to work on the screws some more.

On another note, the stuff on that forum is very interesting. They talk about how that little silver piece on the pdi hop up chamber comes loose which could cause turning of the hop up chamber, despite if the two small screws (not the hop up ones) are in place. Everytime I take apart my rifle, that piece is loose and sometimes not even attached. I just put some tape on the barrel next to it, to keep it from moving around. Also, how the hop up arms are a little flimsy and how there is too much room for the arms to move around. Looks like a few mods in the future are in order, and I will see how it goes.

Edit Edit

:

I have everything dissembled now, and am going to spend the next few days cleaning my rifle and its parts. I know vindi had a guide somewhere on how to clean your inner barrel, but I do not have access to some of the stuff he used. Woogie, what do you use to clean your barrel? I saw some stuff online, but I just do not trust some of the stuff they are doing.

 

[woogie]

I usually just use the cleaning stuff I use for my real rifles to be honest.

I to have been thinking about making spacers or something in the chamber itself more center. That and I need to take a look at that barrel "nut" as well. As I don't have the two set screws for the sides of the chamber.

So did the new spring fix the problem?

I hope I am done with the rifle, aside from the small tweeks. Becuase now I have my M24 to play with, and to be honest.... I may switch to that rifle as a main. So if anyone wants to buy a nice L96 hit me up

 

[fuzzywolly]

The spring is on its way right now. Its coming in an order I placed last friday. Speaking of orders, just got my new scope from Shortyusa.com. Excited to get some use out of that as well.

I will be giving an update on the rifle hopefully by this weekend. Really it depends when my order arrives and if my zero trigger gets here in time. (my other one crapped on me).

As far as the barrel cleaning kit, could you give me a specific name, or should I just look around at Walmart?

 

[woogie]

Yeah take a look around the gun department there at walmart.

I just use that because I have it laying around. Not to sure how it is for the bucking but nothing as of yet. If you want, get a small thing of Windex and use that. Should get the barrel nice and clean, and streak free

And how did you get a zero trigger to crap out on you?!?!

 

[fuzzywolly]

Lol, sorry about that. I meant my stock trigger unit broke, and my zero trigger is on its way.

As for the cleaning, I will mainly take apart the whole gun and hop up when I clean it. That way I do no harm to the bucking or anything. Although that could become a pain after awhile. O well, I will wait and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help. I just got to find some more time to go and get all the necessities.