poor colorado snipers
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I would find it slightly to moderately insulting that I was not allowed to wear a Ghillie suit. As far as being a Heat Casualty; that is the risk you assume when doing anything and not hydrating. Someone who is slightly out of shape without a ghillie suit who doesn't hydrate is just as likely to become a victim of heat stroke.
Above all; it's like anything else in life. It seems like they bring "safety" in a lot; but this is what waivers' are for. Any host in their right mind uses a waiver; and that waiver should state something about injuries, death, etc. that eliminates any blame from the other attendees and event holders, unless there is gross negligence (E.G. They told someone they couldn't bring water with them and then the person died of heat stroke).
Also; I think it's kind of hilarious; to me I play the game for the realism; having done this work in real life I would find it propondrous to do it without all my equipment; a ghillie suit is included in this.
Overall there shouldn't be a "Leader" of any major airsoft group. It should be a "Council" so to speak; of members who have an unbiased view of things. Yes safety is a high priority; but if minor safety implementations make a major detraction from the fun of the sport; then why play?
To those without Ghillie usage being an option; use your other availabilities. If they won't let you wear concealment, make it. Take up a good position and use an e-tool to dig 5 inches deep into the ground the size of your body; have a buddy cover you back up with foliage and natural vegetation. After all; it's just using mother nature right? Show them you can follow their rules and still be undetected. (Note that you don't need an E-tool; a hasty concealed fighting position can be accomplished in less than 5 minutes.
At the end if/when they get frustrated with not finding you just say "Hey, I felt naked without being able to use all my equipment... so I had to cover myself with something... and well; dirt was readily available."
Just my 2 cents on the situation
Above all; it's like anything else in life. It seems like they bring "safety" in a lot; but this is what waivers' are for. Any host in their right mind uses a waiver; and that waiver should state something about injuries, death, etc. that eliminates any blame from the other attendees and event holders, unless there is gross negligence (E.G. They told someone they couldn't bring water with them and then the person died of heat stroke).
Also; I think it's kind of hilarious; to me I play the game for the realism; having done this work in real life I would find it propondrous to do it without all my equipment; a ghillie suit is included in this.
Overall there shouldn't be a "Leader" of any major airsoft group. It should be a "Council" so to speak; of members who have an unbiased view of things. Yes safety is a high priority; but if minor safety implementations make a major detraction from the fun of the sport; then why play?
To those without Ghillie usage being an option; use your other availabilities. If they won't let you wear concealment, make it. Take up a good position and use an e-tool to dig 5 inches deep into the ground the size of your body; have a buddy cover you back up with foliage and natural vegetation. After all; it's just using mother nature right? Show them you can follow their rules and still be undetected. (Note that you don't need an E-tool; a hasty concealed fighting position can be accomplished in less than 5 minutes.
At the end if/when they get frustrated with not finding you just say "Hey, I felt naked without being able to use all my equipment... so I had to cover myself with something... and well; dirt was readily available."
Just my 2 cents on the situation
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I was told that as a sniper, we were not allowed to using any form of Ghillie including just sticking foliage between you and your equipment.
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When was that said man!? If they don't apply that rule to everyone else, I will be damn right pissed. I honestly don't know who is making all these decisions(rules) and how in the hell are they coming to them in the first place. If they don't let up relatively soon, or place any more restrictions on snipers for that matter, I will probably not play with them ever again. The only way I would stick around is if the sniper community here can place whatever restrictions on their 'role classes' that we feel would balance things(i.e. SAW gunners can only carry one 30 round mag/ all non-sniper players have to wear pink jumpsuits while playing and no LBEs of any kind). I doubt they would like that. The games just aren't balanced any more and snipers don't have a say in anything.
Is this the Denver area or also cover Colorado Springs? We are looking at a possible move to CS and I just want to know if I need to look for enough land to host my own games when I move.
I will say that we are getting ready to limit ghillie use at our events too. But we will tell you the reasons up front and have no qualms telling you why, but we are also making it so that you can wear one if you can pass the qualifier courses.
I will say that we are getting ready to limit ghillie use at our events too. But we will tell you the reasons up front and have no qualms telling you why, but we are also making it so that you can wear one if you can pass the qualifier courses.
A Qualifier course sounds like a more reasonable (although slightly unethical without making every other simulated role have a qualifier course) compromise to me as an actual prior service Sniper. But just outright banning is ridiculous. It's a game, but there are degree's of realism that hosts must decide on.
We have a marksman qualifier in place to use any guns over 400 FPS so this covers the DMR role. Once you pass that then you can take the advanced sniper course (upcoming) which will allow you to run a ghillie. We are looking to put a SAW/Machine (based or RPS) gunner qualifier in place too and may move the FPS on those up to 450. So in a sense we are putting qualifiers in place for most of the trouble roles on the field.Maverick (Immortal) said:
We are doing this for safety first but also to bring our events more in line with real world military ops where you won't find every joe solider with a high powered bolt or a 20 RPS gun.
Even Steven it is, not even the guys on my team know the course or the rules and they are required to take it. Only 5 select people have seen the rules and they are already pre-qualified by both experience and years in the local scene.Maverick (Immortal) said:
But back on topic my question still stand does this organization run the entire state or just a small area?
From what is sounds like they run the show; sounds like a pretty elitist group if you ask me; which is unfortunate. The overall majority of players should be able to have some kind of say (As long as those requests are reasonable and not childish). So if I were you I would look for plenty of land; I always do whenever I move.
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http://www.airsoftcolorado.org/forum/45/3323.htmlsoldierofvalor said:
This particular statement was made, august 11th. And as for the, do they control the show scene; no but if your looking for the milsim/slightly realistic play they are it. Up north by Loveland is a team called ISF http://www.uac-coloradoairsoft.com/airsoft-forum/index.php. Though they are way to into zombie games. Just north of Denver there was a team called Demon Arsenal they had 30 guys but have since all died out except for about 5 hardcore members.
ASCO does not own the land they play on. They use national forest land, if I could figure out a way to not have it degenerate into a fist fight I would camp out there early and start a game so they would have to join us, if I could keep it from a fist fight but I doubt it.
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The only problem from doing something like that tuxedo is ASCO would probably ban us from any further games with them. And because Colorado Milsim and ASCO are run by the same people(generally speaking); if you got banned from one, you'd be banned from the other(most likely).
I agree with sounguru; we need to get some more organizations to begin hosting their own games. When you look at all of the states and countries where Airsoft is popular and successful, you'll also notice there are countless stores and fields there. If you take California for example, you'll see that a good number of the stores there(like airsoftgi.com and evike.com) have there own fields(or partnering fields). God Father Airsoft(New Jersey i think) has there own store as well as indoor and outdoor fields. Look at Scotland. They have hundreds of fields with all sorts of different rules(and they do allow exceptions and changes); look how many people play there, it is insane! I believe those who can should start up their own businesses/fields. At least have some new organizations that run their own games.
Tuxedo, at some point we should try and see if we can find some playable land and get something going there regularly. Colorado needs more than ASCO and one CQB
I agree with sounguru; we need to get some more organizations to begin hosting their own games. When you look at all of the states and countries where Airsoft is popular and successful, you'll also notice there are countless stores and fields there. If you take California for example, you'll see that a good number of the stores there(like airsoftgi.com and evike.com) have there own fields(or partnering fields). God Father Airsoft(New Jersey i think) has there own store as well as indoor and outdoor fields. Look at Scotland. They have hundreds of fields with all sorts of different rules(and they do allow exceptions and changes); look how many people play there, it is insane! I believe those who can should start up their own businesses/fields. At least have some new organizations that run their own games.
Tuxedo, at some point we should try and see if we can find some playable land and get something going there regularly. Colorado needs more than ASCO and one CQB
Well that is childish if they ban you just because you run your own events.
That just sounds like someone has their power panties on too tight. If they are that petty it doesn't sound like a group I would want to play with anyway.
Up here we were told to use national forest land we had to have insurance. Does ASCO have insurance?
Sounds to me like ASCO would not be that hard to take out. If someone started a field had a fair and balanced rules set and ran a good game it sounds like players would not be that hard to find. You may start out small but over time things would grow and I bet within a year you would be putting ASCO to shame on attendance.
That just sounds like someone has their power panties on too tight. If they are that petty it doesn't sound like a group I would want to play with anyway.
Up here we were told to use national forest land we had to have insurance. Does ASCO have insurance?
Sounds to me like ASCO would not be that hard to take out. If someone started a field had a fair and balanced rules set and ran a good game it sounds like players would not be that hard to find. You may start out small but over time things would grow and I bet within a year you would be putting ASCO to shame on attendance.
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The problem with that is ASCO and Colorado Milsim(they are large event coordinators) have the only games that are run here regularly. AirsoftColorado.org is the only site specifically for airsoft and they have pretty much the entire playing population here on their forums. If they talked trash about whatever we tried to do, most of the community would probably buy it. It would be hard to pass up the reputation they've built up over the past decade or so.
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The problem with banning us would be a struggle to see who gets to the property first (being Public land). I just said I have thought about it not that its the best idea.
Not letting us use foliage strapped to us, because of some fear against cheating; is arbitrary in my opinion. Its no different than hiding behind a bush, or a rock for that matter.
Not letting us use foliage strapped to us, because of some fear against cheating; is arbitrary in my opinion. Its no different than hiding behind a bush, or a rock for that matter.
Web site space and forums are cheap...soldierofvalor said:
The trick is to be a bigger man and even if they talk trash you just ignore it and let the people that go to your events speak for you. Eventually people would begin to see ASOC for what they really are. If you let the fear of ASOC talking trash deter you then they have already won with out firing a shot.
We have had teams and event holders up here who used to be all that and a bag of chips too fold and almost or completely disappear because someone else came around stuck to their guns and put on a better event with better rules.
If we make the move to Colorado I will be more than happy to bring my rule set, my forum and web experience (not that much but some), My attitude to build the best dang team and event holder in the area, my lack of fear of taking cheap shots from other teams, my lack of fear of telling them what to do with themselves, my loyalty to my ideas, and my fat butt to sit on them if all else fails and help whom ever wants to be involved to build our own AASOC (Anti Airsoft Organization of Colorado) and show them don't mess with the snipers....
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Anti Airsoft Organization of Colorado may not be the best way to word it
As far as the Loveland field/team, we are NOT way into Zombie games. We play those games every once in a while at night, just for a chance. Most of our games are during the day. We have quite a few snipers that play on our field. The UAC website is no longer up, it has been replaced by www.nocoairsoft.comtuxedopenguin said:
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