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I know, but he won't tell me anything about it, so I have come up with my own version, which I am testing now.
R-Hop
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I tryed an LRB in conjunction with my elongated hop in my G&G M14.
The results were good, lots of range etc but I found 2 problems with it
1/ The flight path is odd, it not your traditional gentle lob or gentle curve down which are easy to allow for at variable contact distances, it infact goes down, then flattens out, then towards the end of its flight it goes up in the air then drops like a stone, quite difficult to predict in the heat of combat alright if all you do is shoot paper targets in your back garden :-/.
2/ when trying to compinsate for the above you end up shooting the floor about 20 foot infront of you a hell of alot when your prone, annoying when your using a semi, damn near fuse popping when using a BA :-/
Its ideal if your a full auto queen, and what it was originaly used for in classic airsoft weapons, cuz it allows you to get more range from heavier ammo using lower fps, but I've reverted back to a straight barrel and hop mod as its more predictable.
It may well of been because I was using it along with my long hop mod that I was getting the results I did, so if anyone was going to try an LRB I'd advise doing it before you try any long hop stuff
The results were good, lots of range etc but I found 2 problems with it
1/ The flight path is odd, it not your traditional gentle lob or gentle curve down which are easy to allow for at variable contact distances, it infact goes down, then flattens out, then towards the end of its flight it goes up in the air then drops like a stone, quite difficult to predict in the heat of combat alright if all you do is shoot paper targets in your back garden :-/.
2/ when trying to compinsate for the above you end up shooting the floor about 20 foot infront of you a hell of alot when your prone, annoying when your using a semi, damn near fuse popping when using a BA :-/
Its ideal if your a full auto queen, and what it was originaly used for in classic airsoft weapons, cuz it allows you to get more range from heavier ammo using lower fps, but I've reverted back to a straight barrel and hop mod as its more predictable.
It may well of been because I was using it along with my long hop mod that I was getting the results I did, so if anyone was going to try an LRB I'd advise doing it before you try any long hop stuff
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Sounds like you had the reverse magnus effect due to the LRB and the patch.
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Re inspired by this thread I had another go at it yesterday as part of my V3 long nub mod.
Results were much better, I set the hop to a gentle lob to gain maximum range, then screwed down the LRB adjuster 1/4 turn at a time, what I noticed in the flight pattern was it lowered the peak of the lob into a flatter flight path and lengthened the flight distance
Please bare in mind this is all done on a rifle firing 330fps using G&G .28s
I believe the problem I had last time was that I wasn't using heavy enough ammo as that is really the main point of using an LRB, as used alone and using the same, light weight, ammo the flight pattern I was getting is the one I should of realised I would get :-/.
It only occured to me yesterday that this might be the reason so instead of tuning the ammo to a fixed barrel curve I decided to tune the barrel curve to the ammo I want to use
I still have more testing to do so expect more soon
Results were much better, I set the hop to a gentle lob to gain maximum range, then screwed down the LRB adjuster 1/4 turn at a time, what I noticed in the flight pattern was it lowered the peak of the lob into a flatter flight path and lengthened the flight distance
Please bare in mind this is all done on a rifle firing 330fps using G&G .28s
I believe the problem I had last time was that I wasn't using heavy enough ammo as that is really the main point of using an LRB, as used alone and using the same, light weight, ammo the flight pattern I was getting is the one I should of realised I would get :-/.
It only occured to me yesterday that this might be the reason so instead of tuning the ammo to a fixed barrel curve I decided to tune the barrel curve to the ammo I want to use
I still have more testing to do so expect more soon
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How exactly are you tuning the barrel? In all of the AEGs I have seen, you don't exactly need barrel spacers, so there is no space at all for the IB to bend...
I have done exactly that on my Tanaka, just never done it on an AEG...
I have done exactly that on my Tanaka, just never done it on an AEG...
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I wouldn't be suprised if he was using some allen set screws to bend the barrel.
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Vindi, correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe he is talking about his set up here:
I believe he is talking about his set up here:
vindicareassassin said:Yer tizbobgengeskahn said:Vindi:
I found some outer barrel extensions and am thinking that I am just going to use that with a suppressor to cover the inner barrel, plus itll give it a nice SD lookHow did you stabilize the longer barrel in the fore-grip? I was thinking about getting a solid fore-grip and filling it with foam, but i love the look of the RIS grips![]()
I rear wired my battery so I have a pouch on my stock but Im thinking about getting a LiPo and encasing the stock so it can still fold.![]()
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You need to use M5 bolts cut to length, so that they hold the inner tight and the bolt head sits tight against either the forestock or in my case the RIS rail.
Do this both sides and it holds the barrel firmly, and the forestock steady enough to fit a bi-pod.
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You can just make out the C shaped marks where the bolts press against the barrel outer.
Also notice tha massive chunck taken out to enable a large stick 9.6v battery to fit when its got one of those massive C length forestocks on.
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Barrel spacers made from plastic card bent into U shapes and then fed over the barrel, the sides were left long so the glue had something to grab hold of, but not to long to interfer with battery fit.
Again notice massive chunck missing to enable big kahoonas battery to be fitted
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Appologies for shitty pics, been relegated to using my phone camera and it aint the best, though it ought to be the amount I'm payin for it![]()
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Why thank you captain obvious...metallicafatcat said:
I meant how is there space in which to do it? There is literally no space in between the inner and outer barrels in all of the AEGs I have seen.
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To be honest, I don't really know. He has a way of doing things that others claim impossible. He could be using a different rifle than one of his numerous M4s, but I wouldn't be sure which. I'll try and prod some information out of him, but I doubt he'll give me too many details.
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Its on my G&G M14 EBR, the one I built before even G&G did
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This chassis is unique in that it has a barrel mounting block half way along the outer barrel. This holds the back half completely flat and rigid both horizontaly and verticaly. I then fitted a screw to the very front of the chassis directly above the barrel, this is how I adjust the amount of curve in the barrel. It only allows for about 4mm of adjustment, but as I'm only using .28s it seems to be enough..... I could do some grinding and get more of a curve so I can use maybe .36s but that will come after I've done some play testing and finished my M16 SPR/DMR project.
I have seen a couple of LRBs fitted to BA rifles, and they used set screws half way along the barrel pushing the middle up, one even made a special cradle to hold 2 set screws at 45 degrees to the horizontal to be able to tune the left and right of the bb flight aswell
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..... must be an absalute bitch to set up :-/.
Me personally don't like the idea as to my mind the bb should have a 'flow' down the barrel, it just doesn't sit right with me that sticking a corner in the middle of the barrel for the bb to crash into could do the same thing :-/
I might be wrong and the guys doing it seemed happy with the results, without trying it myself I cant say..... I just bought a 2nd hand VSR Gspec, might be time for some creativity
This chassis is unique in that it has a barrel mounting block half way along the outer barrel. This holds the back half completely flat and rigid both horizontaly and verticaly. I then fitted a screw to the very front of the chassis directly above the barrel, this is how I adjust the amount of curve in the barrel. It only allows for about 4mm of adjustment, but as I'm only using .28s it seems to be enough..... I could do some grinding and get more of a curve so I can use maybe .36s but that will come after I've done some play testing and finished my M16 SPR/DMR project.
I have seen a couple of LRBs fitted to BA rifles, and they used set screws half way along the barrel pushing the middle up, one even made a special cradle to hold 2 set screws at 45 degrees to the horizontal to be able to tune the left and right of the bb flight aswell
Me personally don't like the idea as to my mind the bb should have a 'flow' down the barrel, it just doesn't sit right with me that sticking a corner in the middle of the barrel for the bb to crash into could do the same thing :-/
I might be wrong and the guys doing it seemed happy with the results, without trying it myself I cant say..... I just bought a 2nd hand VSR Gspec, might be time for some creativity
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I see. What has worked for me in BASRs is to just drop the front end of the barrel, that allows me to hop bbs (.2s) to about 250 feet at ~150 fps (low on gas, barely came out the barrel)
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See that is what the LRB was originaly produced for, to provide enough lift for realy heavy bbs from extremely low powered rifles thereby making them inherentle more accurate, even if the bb did take an age to get to where its going .
If your running over 500 fps I dowt you'd see much improvement as you should be using .4 and above bbs in any case apart from alittle more range.
Where you will realy notice a difference is when your using sub 350 fps rifles and want to use .28s and over.
What you will find with all rifles is that you will require less 'normal' hop, this in turn will increase your fps as its not being wasted trying to push the bb through the hop.
What I will say to anyone thinking of trying this is try to make your system adjustable as it will then be easier to tune your barrel to your prefered ammo rather than try and find a bb weight that will work with a fixed curve.
.If your running over 500 fps I dowt you'd see much improvement as you should be using .4 and above bbs in any case apart from alittle more range.
Where you will realy notice a difference is when your using sub 350 fps rifles and want to use .28s and over.
What you will find with all rifles is that you will require less 'normal' hop, this in turn will increase your fps as its not being wasted trying to push the bb through the hop.
What I will say to anyone thinking of trying this is try to make your system adjustable as it will then be easier to tune your barrel to your prefered ammo rather than try and find a bb weight that will work with a fixed curve.
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For those interested, I modified the OP with an update instead of adding moster posts as I work along...
I just read your updated post... This should be good!
Before you dive into the the testing. What is your default cacluations:
- Bucking (Type and Hard/Soft)
- Barrel (Prommy 6.03 x 550mm, Brass)
- BB (Type and Wt)
- Distance
- Accuracy
I ask this so we can base each patch from the default and each other.
All and all I am really looking forward to this.
Before you dive into the the testing. What is your default cacluations:
- Bucking (Type and Hard/Soft)
- Barrel (Prommy 6.03 x 550mm, Brass)
- BB (Type and Wt)
- Distance
- Accuracy
I ask this so we can base each patch from the default and each other.
All and all I am really looking forward to this.
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Thanks AHP, in the heed of posting yesterday I forgot to add that information. OP has been edited to add the above information as well as various other stats on the hosing and modified barrel cut.
I have never actually done a grouping (for record) with my SL9, so that should be interesting to see as well. I figure 50ft. should be enough to see discrepancies in the patterns from either system, but if anyone wants to see from further or thinks I should set a further distance just let me know and I'll see what I can do. 120' is about as far as I can push though in my backyard, and even then it gets to be a stretch.
I have never actually done a grouping (for record) with my SL9, so that should be interesting to see as well. I figure 50ft. should be enough to see discrepancies in the patterns from either system, but if anyone wants to see from further or thinks I should set a further distance just let me know and I'll see what I can do. 120' is about as far as I can push though in my backyard, and even then it gets to be a stretch.
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Since the SL9 has the bi-pod built into the fore grip I am hoping that the effect will be like a floated barrel, and as long as I fire on semi the barrel movement should be consistent between shots, however the resulting down flex would give the barrel an LRB effect, but at least it would be consistent. The reason I hesitate to fire off of a sand bag is because of the resulting upfelx in the barrel would not be repeatable/consistent between shots...
Ideally I would be able to find a thin tube or sleeve that I could just slide on and off the inner barrel to shim it. I'll do some measurements this afternoon and keep an eye out for something....
Ideally I would be able to find a thin tube or sleeve that I could just slide on and off the inner barrel to shim it. I'll do some measurements this afternoon and keep an eye out for something....
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Bump for another update to the OP.
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To reply to your bump.....
Might be worth trying to shim a downward curve to make 'sort'of' an LRBish effect to help with the range issue.
Give the barrel a polish and see what you get from that before going any further with hop mods
I did think about trying to bend the craddle on my SL36c to try to increase the LRB effect but dumped the idea as it wasn't adjustable and had a suspition that the monkey metal its made from would probably crack rather than bend nicely......
I also toyed with the idea of making a longer barrel window, fitting a nubless rubber, sealed ofcoarse, then making some patches to fit over the hole in differing thickness' with the chamber holding it in place, sort of like a fixed hop, but also dumped tis idea as adjusting it would of been a nightmare as it would require a full strip down everytime you needed to make any sort of adjustment, but as I'm working on a couple of VSR project currently I'm playing with this idea again.....
Just some food for thought
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Might be worth trying to shim a downward curve to make 'sort'of' an LRBish effect to help with the range issue.
Give the barrel a polish and see what you get from that before going any further with hop mods
I did think about trying to bend the craddle on my SL36c to try to increase the LRB effect but dumped the idea as it wasn't adjustable and had a suspition that the monkey metal its made from would probably crack rather than bend nicely......
I also toyed with the idea of making a longer barrel window, fitting a nubless rubber, sealed ofcoarse, then making some patches to fit over the hole in differing thickness' with the chamber holding it in place, sort of like a fixed hop, but also dumped tis idea as adjusting it would of been a nightmare as it would require a full strip down everytime you needed to make any sort of adjustment, but as I'm working on a couple of VSR project currently I'm playing with this idea again.....
Just some food for thought
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Vindi, I have spent the last day or two theorizing on how I could do this, the most helpful article I have found (besides your post on ASM and a few of the PMs we have exchanged) is this article on classicairsoft.net http://classicairsoft.org/forum/content.php?127-LRB-Effect-using-an-AEG-barrel-bushings-set-screws
My question is: is it necessary to have the "step" in the barrel at the beginning of the LRB? I see that the poster in that thread preserved it with the set screw in the bolt, but is it necessary?
I like the idea of toying with this on my SL9, although I am not sure how I would do it quite yet.
My question is: is it necessary to have the "step" in the barrel at the beginning of the LRB? I see that the poster in that thread preserved it with the set screw in the bolt, but is it necessary?
I like the idea of toying with this on my SL9, although I am not sure how I would do it quite yet.
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