[ronnokk]

(Figured this would apply more to general instead of Long Range AEGs, but if I've misplaced it, feel free to move it)

Hey snipers,

I've recently been having some debates at the field I volunteer at (along with 4 others, we run the place. It's non-profit). We've been playing on 30 acres of land for the last 2 years, and have had no issues with our FPS regulations. Our previous regulations that we used for 2 years were 0-280 FPS=no MED, 281-400=30ft MED, and anything 401-550=semi only, 100ft MED.

The issues all started when we had a volunteer begin to argue that another volunteer's SR-25 DMR running 500 FPS was incredibly overpowered, so he began running his tanaka m700 from 700-750 FPS to "Compete" and continues to argue that the DMR at 500 is overpowered (while he has drawn blood many times from 200ft).

So the last few weekends, we've been talking about reducing the FPS of DMRs/Snipers. He wants the limits to be AEG=400, DMR=450, and Bolt=550. Personally, I think 400/500/600 would be perfectly fair, however, he continues to claim that the DMR has very few cons compared to an AEG or BASR. He argues that with a fast trigger response, you can fire a semi-auto DMR at 10+ RPS (He uses my Polarstar PR-15 as a base for his argument, due to the instant trigger response), and that the 50 FPS is a generous advantage for penetration of brush and leaves. I've basically told him that 99% of DMRs are standard AEGs, which, even with a mosfet and 11.1v lipo, still can only reach around 4 RPS on semi. He also completely ignores the fact that DMs do not pull the trigger as quickly as possible, and thinks of them as paintballers who simply want to lay down fire.

Myself and the other DMR who volunteer's at our field have tried to convince him that a mere 50 FPS increase while losing full auto capabilities and having a longer engagement distance is simply devastating to DMs, but he claims that the 50 FPS advantage was dramatic. We suggested 400/500/600, yet he shot it down. I tried to compromise at 400/475/550, a 75 FPS increase per tier, yet he didn't like that either. I'm not worried about the advantage of a BASR over a DMR, more the advantage of an AEG over a DMR.

If anyone has any arguments against his proposal of 400/450/550 that I haven't mentioned, or some extra aspects of mine, I'd really appreciate. Also, if you believe that I'm wrong for the FPS that I'm suggesting, please post here as well and give me reasons why. Also, if you have alternate suggestions for our FPS rules, possibly via magazine capacity, or any other means, please post them here.

Thanks!

 

[hobobunny]

Just because you have the ability to lay down blisteringly fast fire doesn't mean you will. That pretty much ruins the entire purpose of being a DM. It's the same thing with the airsoft honesty policy. People still have to ability to cheat and not call hits, but apparently the majority of airsofters trust other airsofters, so why not trust people with rapid fire DMRs? In my experience, cheaters, when caught, usually get suspended from playing in games. I feel that the same thing can work for your restrictions. In fact, it's an easier offense to catch because you can hear someone spewing bbs.

 

[Cheese Man]

400/450/550 is what my field has, but it is not very well followed, no chrono, etc.

Basically, his argument is that it should be lower because of the ROF, right? Then say the 400/500/600, but DMRs have to be semi-only AND have lowcaps, otherwise they must be 450 or lower, and whatever they want.

By the way, a review on the PR-15 would be really nice!

 

[foxtrot1]

you guys make it way to complicated.....our field rules are simple, aegs,pistols etc 400 fps. snipers and dmr's 515 with 100ft engagement distance and are required to carry a sidearm.

 

[ronnokk]

Pale Blue- That's basically my idea. After the weekend's play, I've spent nearly every hour thinking of alternatives that will appease him. I've considered doing a "no more than 1-2 BBs in the air at a time". I've tried to explain to him that just because I CAN (Not any other DMs who are using AEGs) doesn't mean that everyone should be limited, even me, because of the fact that I won't go spewing BBs everywhere, because it removes the realism and fun of the role.

Cheese Man- We actually chrono all of the players, and only let them slide about 5-10 FPS, although he has no problems running 700 FPS. I think running lowcaps or even midcaps if I can convince him would be a fair trade off to be able to run at 500 FPS on semi.

you guys make it way to complicated.....our field rules are simple, aegs,pistols etc 400 fps. snipers and dmr's 515 with 100ft engagement distance and are required to carry a sidearm.

I agree completely. We have had absolutely no complaints about DMRs, only his rifle. When we asked him about his rifle and why he was running it so high(because we had a few minor injuries. Nothing bad, just drawing blood from far distances), he responded that it was because of the DMR (which again, had no complaints against it) being overpowered. It seems to me like he just wants to run hot, and is using the DMR as an excuse.

 

[metallicafatcat]

Our field allows up to 650fps with .25gs on a bolty...heheh at a 125' MED. DMR is 550fps at 100'. To be me, anybody with a high enough RoF will out range any gun simply due to volume of fire. But that's not the point. Why does he think it's over powered? Because he can't hit S**t when he needs to, Is the DM outplaying him and 'killing' him? I think he's just trying to cover the flaws of his choice by degrading the DMs guns performance. I'd say offer him that all AEGs are full auto up to 450 and see how that changes his tune.

 

[mateba]

In Alabama most of us treat DMRs and Snipers rifles differently than the majority does. DMRs are allowed 450FPS with a 75' MED and retain select-fire controls but are restricted to mid and low-cap magazines and they must look like real-life DMRs (scopes, full stocks, 20' barrels...). Sniper rifles are allowed to 550FPS with a 100' MED and can be both bolt-action or semi-auto but can only use low-cap magazines and must look like real life sniper rifles (scopes, full stocks, 20' barrels, large calibers...). DMRs and SAWs are the polar opposites but we still consider them to be used in a support role with squad tactics. Snipers are usually by themselves or have a spotter near by but are basically on their own. As far as milsim goes, we think this is more realistic in terms of matching the use of small arms by military around the world. What are you supposed to do with a .50cal AEG, give them a 450FPS cap just because they are semi-only? Thats just as unrealistic as saying any 450FPS replica can be a DMR, MP5s and the like.

Ronnok, I would tell the guy complaining about DMR/Sniper FPS/MED rules to take a hike. A ref that decides to break the rules (700FPS) just undermines everyone else's authority and sends the wrong message to the younger crowd. The Polarstar is just coming to market and barely a legitimate example. A LRB equipped BV classic shooting at 1.48j (400FPS) can out range most replicas at 250++' and still would only have a 30'MED and has full-auto. Much better example, but it doesn't mean you should ban replicas that have been around as long as 25 years. If someone is willing to spend $850+ in a semi-only sniping platform, I would say more power to them. I would rather deal with the one irresponsible rich brat than send a man home thats serious about airsoft. And then I'd ask them if I could shoot it.

I don't like your 281-400FPS regs but its y'alls field. I think there is too much role diversity to lump stock Marui performance with others like KWA. That and 281 feels very different than 400 from 30'. I would also consider chrono'ing in joules and require people to chrono with the BB they skirmish with instead of .2g BB due to the velocity differences you can get in both AEGs and especially gas powered replicas.

 

[vindicareassassin]

As we in the UK are 'legaly' limited to 350fps for all weapons its not really an issue, but as there are sites around the country that do allow higher fps with a disclaimer I'll continue....

The general rule for us is 328fps +/-5% for all AEGs and pistols no MED.

Most sites that allow higher fps' say 425 or 450fps for DMR style rifles 30metre MED, strickly semi only. While I like the rules that mateba plays under ie 'it must look like a DMR to have the power bonus' sadly next to no one over here enforces them, so you do find the occasional f**kwit running round with a semi locked 450fps MP5K :, though one site I play at regularly does enforce it and also imposes a 100 round limit per game, which I try to live by at every site I play as I like the realistic restriction on ammo use.

BAs can be a maximum of 500fps again 30metre MED, some sites run a 2 mag limit, but again not many

Take from this what you will

I also agree with mateba on the point of telling your 'nay sayer' to Foxtrot Oscar, as it strikes me he's got himself lost in the 'power game', somehow thinking it makes you a better shot, rather than 'game play style' and the mechanics of it. After all it only takes one to spoil things for everyone, and that 'one' should most definately NOT be incharge :-/

 

[auger]

I have a different take on it. The SR-25 is a sniper rifle, end of disscution.

Of course it's not the end of it but you can try that. I do have a question though if your field limit is 550 then why are you allowing him to run a sniper that's 700? I say force him to get within limits or force him out. Judging by how he's acting I don't think it's worth playing with the guy. Your rules for FPS are fine as they are now. That is what a good number of fields have now for rules.

 

[ronnokk]

The guy who's trying to change the rules is really a good guy, he's just having an issue with this I guess. He does a huge amount for the field, (far more than I do) so I don't feel that it's my place to tell him to get out, nor do I want to. Since we're a private operation, we let people slide as we see fit, usually no higher than 600 FPS however.

 

[mateba]

wanwan wah :

 

[hellman]

we have no fps limit but we have safety distance instead in Sweden .. but instead we have mag limit and rd limit on most of our games in Sweden - semi snipers 3-4 20rd mags depending on game lenght .. bolt 2-3 10rd mags

from right to left

class - safety distance - joule - 0.20 BBS >>>>>>0.45 BBS

we are starting too use joule instead of fps / m/s for safety distance and it

 

[MGunner]

In Maine the rule is simple. If it uses a battery, its limited to 450FPS. If its bolt, you can go up to 550. and the limit is 550. if you hit 551, no go, same as 451. ALL with .2. At my field we also have a ''Zero range'' range rule where anything shooting anything under 280 FPS with a .2 has no MED.

AEGs have a MED of 20 feet, any cloer you call a safety or ''bang'' kill, MED for BASR is 60 feet if they shoot over 450.

 

[cerboknight]

Here in the UK, we don't actually have FPS limits by law but rather 'guidelines set by the home office'

So insurance companies could insure sites with 1000FPS limits, but the risk is far too great so for standard AEGs it's usually around the 330-350 mark, depending on the site. Bolt actions and semi only rifles sometimes get different limits but it depends entirely on the site. (That's my understanding of it, explained to me by an airsoft shop owner)

At my local site, we have a blanket 330 + 10% variation rule, but the site owner allows 'trusted players' to use 500FPS bolt actions, and 450FPS semi only DMRs. He chooses trusted players by how long they've been playing, so it's usually the regulars that get the privilege. It does stop the 500FPS cod snipers though, so that's a nice perk.