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Reinforced Gearbox

9008 Views 44 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  shadowbot
Ok guys, lets hear what everyone thinks about this one...

As everyone knows, and one has felt ;), I have my CA SPR that I just got. I really love this rifle!! I ended up using it more than my CA M24 today during a game.

I have done a little to the rifle, but nothing major or anything in regards to the gear box. I have stabilized the inner barrel, and am planning on on stabilizing the outer barrel inside of the tube as well. That will be apart of the winter projects that I am going to do.

So this is my question to you guys......

Has anyone got a systema gear box in there rifle, and how does it perform? I am planning on getting this rifle to 500-550 fps, so that would be the gearbox with the M150 spring. I am trying to find if the gears are the high torque, and need to find a motor that will work.

I know there are a few different gear boxes at the moment.
There is the Systema Complete gear box, the Revolution, as well as the Systema Energy.

So here is my question to you guys.......

1. Which one of the above would be the better choice?
2. Which one will last the longest?
3. What type of motor would be needed?
4. Would I be able to use a 7.4 v lipo in them and have no problems?
5. I would obviously use Duttons semi auto only mod to her, so no worries there.

I know the revolution gear box is awesome! I have found it in a few places, but have heard that you need the Systema hop chamber to use it. But the one good thing about it is that it comes with the motor, and a mosfett. Now this is on the high side of range, but I can eat Ra-man noodles for a while to get her bought.

If there are any other gearboxes that you guys can suggest, let me know. I would also like to hear anything you guys can tell me about the Matrix 8mm gearbox. Of course in the same FPS as the systema.

I would like this rifle to be done by spring next year. So I can use the rifle at my large game.

Thanks in advance guys, and I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.
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Woogie, I've got quite a bit of information for you...when I get time this week. Don't expect much until Friday though. It'll be well worth it when I'm able to though.
Alright, here's what I've got to offer you.

I've had a Systema M150 gearbox in one of my primary's for probably 5 years now (with a Guarder SP120) spring in it.

It comes with helical super torque of gears, which are awesome. Even after 5 years, they STILL show no signs of wear. However, the gearbox also have faults. The first fault is the Systema piston. They are utter garbage. Replace is right away, as I've had one strip out in less that 100 shots. It's a full tooth piston, you'll want to replace it with a half tooth piston - I recommend a Madbull piston. I've had nothing but good luck with them, and it's what I've had in mine since it stripped out. The other problem is the mosfets drain your battery if it's plugged in, even without you shooting. Just be aware not to leave a battery plugged in during prolonged times of non-use (a day of airsoft is going to be a problem though). Next, Systema springs suck. They're inconsistent and are prone to breaking. Throw a Guarder SP140-150 in there and you'll be happy. Lastly, I don't have any pictures, but they are known to have a weak 'peg' in the gearbox, which holds the electrical contact in place. I've had one break, but not from this particular gearbox.

Next, I've also had an M170 mechbox, which I again put a smaller spring in. Not so great. They come with different pistons - theyre Area 1000, which are made by Systema, but are equally as crappy. They also don't come with a bearing spring guide, which is definitely the optimal choice for high velocity setups. Other than that, same problems as with the M150 boxes.

The Revolution I've had no personal experience with. I hear they're great - but not in a high velocity setup that a DMR dictates. They're made more for the M110 range, and anything beyond that you're prone to problems.

The Energy Series, I've also had no experience with and really haven't hear much about.

(As a sidenote, if you're sticking to semi-auto only, get an 11.1v 20C lipo. Not over kill, quicker trigger response, and overall better than a 7.4v or any NiCd or NiMH on the market.)

If you're looking to piece together a gearbox, which is fun and you learn a lot - though I advise against it unless you have fairly extensive experience with an AEG. Most of my gearboxes have been pieced together by myself, but it really can be a very frustrating, especially with limited experience.

Anyways, if you opt for that route, Guarder are quality internals, for a very good value. However, you need to be careful what gearbox you use because they cylinder heads have abnormally small positioning holes in them. Prometheus is also extremely good quality, though on the more expensive side. Their pistons as someone else noted are extremely nice, but if you don't have perfect alignment and shimming, you're gonna strip it right away, and they're fairly expensive in terms of pistons. Prometheus springs are also junk as well. Systema is also a great choice too, just again be aware of their junk spring and pistons.

That's about all I can think of as of now, but if I think of more, I'll add to it. Or, if you have more specific questions, let me know.

Ahh, motors. Forgot about those. Guarder, G&P (I think they're M140 Motors is what they're called), Hummer, or Systema Magnum would all be great choices. All of them are high torque. With the Systema, if you don't have proper alignment, you're going to strip out the pinion gear - they're designed for that to avoid stripping the pinion gear, but be aware. Also, they Magnum can eat through brushes too. If you do get the magnum and strip out the pinion, replace it with the 'hardened' version made for it.

My personal favorite motor out there is a Systema Torque Up, but they haven't been made since the Magnum/Turbo series came out, so best of luck finding one.
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A full tooth piston is designed for a 'flat' gearset.

A half tooth piston is designed for a helical gearset.

The gearset in the M150/M170 Complete boxes are one of the oddballs that can use either, but function better with the half tooth piston, despite coming with a full tooth.

Both gearsets also have their pros and cons

Quieter, Smoother Operating, Last Longer because they distribute stress more evenly throughout the gear

Zero room for error in shimming, if they're not shimmed 100% correct you're either losing your piston, sector gear, all your gears, and a combination of the above

Flat Gears:
More room for error, easier to shim

Louder, 'Sloppier' after shimming, usually wear down sooner

Also, I would recommend going with a Madbull Hop Up, they're awesome compared to 'standard' hop ups.
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metallicafatcat said:
Dutton, I have to disagree with you on the Systema Magnum, they are giant pieces of poo-poo. If you wan't links let me know.
I'm not arguing that it's the greatest motor on the market. I simply stated that is was a decent motor choice. Also, I'm speaking from personal experience with the motor, not something I read on the internet. I've had a Magnum in my SR16 since they came out several years ago (in addition to teammates and 1 other of my guns having them - my SR16 just has the oldest standing Magnum in it), with the only notable problems being the pinion gear - which is designed to strip as opposed to stripping a $90+ gearset - and it eating through brushes.

In addition, I also have 2 PTWs myself, another one I had previously, another 2 my brother has, plus I'm the team gunsmith for several other PTWs. Now normally this wouldn't be an important fact, except for the fact that the Magnum motor was designed based off the 480 motors that the PTW uses (not the 490 garbage that the new PTWs use).

I'm well aware they have their problems, but find me ANY electronic component in ANY industry that doesn't have its flaws and I'll award you with a +1.
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Shadowbot is correct on all accounts, except partially for the cylinder. The ported cylinder is used for shorter barrel, releasing excess air that isn't needed to force the BB out of the cylinder. Basically what happens is in a ported cylinder, the port is in the rear of the gearbox. As the piston moves forward, it pushes all of the air it creates of of the port. Once it passes the port, it then creates the pressure to excel the BB out of the barrel.

The reason this is important is because if there isn't porting in a short barrel, the BB will exit the end of the barrel before adequate pressure is reached.

So in short, with a SPR, or any barrel longer than or equal to AK length, you don't want a ported cylinder. Anything longer than 509mm you will also want an unported bore up cylinder.
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