Hi all. My online acquaintance Woogie referred me here. This seems like a fitting place for me to share experience including pics of parts which is what most people care about anyhow as opposed to me yammering. This is my fully fabricated CNC'd airsoft build. I
Rethinking The Airsoft Sniper Gun
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First up, Spring guides and back stop. Easy to make and not that expensive to do. Below are the 2 designs I made. The shorter one is the first one but after identifying an potential ***** in the design in CAD I had to remake it. The longer one is the correct one now. I made 5 at a time so I have 10 total 1/2 of which are no use now.
First designed one is 12L14 steel and the second one is C1018 steel.
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Here is the guide backstop. It is carbon steel as well. It really functions like a fulcrum and no doubt some will spot a flaw in the design. Yes I am aware of it and yes it has been corrected for the next batch. Pretty big, pretty beefy and quite heavy. I plan on litening it like I did the trigger I designed and made which I will be posting soon.
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First designed one is 12L14 steel and the second one is C1018 steel.
Here is the guide backstop. It is carbon steel as well. It really functions like a fulcrum and no doubt some will spot a flaw in the design. Yes I am aware of it and yes it has been corrected for the next batch. Pretty big, pretty beefy and quite heavy. I plan on litening it like I did the trigger I designed and made which I will be posting soon.
Next up a trigger guard. Might as well make something hard and see how that comes out. Plus having something pretty make keep the enthusiasm up. I figured if I am going to fabricate and say I am fabricating, I might as well fabricate. The guard itself is designed to seat inside a trigger box. I did not have to make it a round plate and all but I figured I may as well make it nice. I have seen some out there where I look and say to myself, "Seriously? No seriously? That is like a temporary one right, until the real one comes in?"
This trigger guard is actually machined from a solid block of 6061 aluminum using CNC after designing it in CAD. it accepts a standard AR-15 grip as long as it is mil-spec, mine is spec for spec with regard to the grip mount.
This trigger guard is not a bent bit of pot metal. It is actually fabricated. I even countersunk the bolt heads to make it clean.
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This trigger guard is actually machined from a solid block of 6061 aluminum using CNC after designing it in CAD. it accepts a standard AR-15 grip as long as it is mil-spec, mine is spec for spec with regard to the grip mount.
This trigger guard is not a bent bit of pot metal. It is actually fabricated. I even countersunk the bolt heads to make it clean.
Then I was back to an easy part. Bolt handle. I have a new design for it which is fatter and a bit shorter with a much larger ball on the end. But this is what I made thus far, I have 5 of them as well.
The traditional bolt cap that many bolt action airguns will not work for me. I needed something more robust. An end cap with a 1/4 threaded extrusion for a bolt handle sleeve to slide onto and then be held down with a bolt like the VSR10 will prove to be too weak for what I planned. I needed a different design and given that I am using aluminum it made it harder. In the end I came up with a bolt handle/end cap thru bolt scheme that if done right will look good and be very strong indeed.
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This too is turned from 6061 and is threaded to accept a steel stud.
I would like to say, threading is a bitch. Messed a few up. Actually almost every part got messed up some how and even when it was not messed up once I got it in my hand and out of the CAD software I promptly realized it needed changes. CAD is cool but there is no substitute for getting bits in your hand.
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The traditional bolt cap that many bolt action airguns will not work for me. I needed something more robust. An end cap with a 1/4 threaded extrusion for a bolt handle sleeve to slide onto and then be held down with a bolt like the VSR10 will prove to be too weak for what I planned. I needed a different design and given that I am using aluminum it made it harder. In the end I came up with a bolt handle/end cap thru bolt scheme that if done right will look good and be very strong indeed.
This too is turned from 6061 and is threaded to accept a steel stud.
I would like to say, threading is a bitch. Messed a few up. Actually almost every part got messed up some how and even when it was not messed up once I got it in my hand and out of the CAD software I promptly realized it needed changes. CAD is cool but there is no substitute for getting bits in your hand.
Ahh thanks. Ya it is fun, frustrating and way more costly than I though. If I knew I may never have started. Anyhow....
Going to need backing plates to mount a back bone to the tube. Mounting the trigger box to the back bone and where exactly the sears go and how long they will be and complications with piston travel related to that was a tough nut to crack. It all seems easy now but that had me panicked for about 2 months.
Backing plates with 1/4x28 jam nuts. Again 6061 blocks were used.
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Going to need backing plates to mount a back bone to the tube. Mounting the trigger box to the back bone and where exactly the sears go and how long they will be and complications with piston travel related to that was a tough nut to crack. It all seems easy now but that had me panicked for about 2 months.
Backing plates with 1/4x28 jam nuts. Again 6061 blocks were used.
I am going to do that a bit later since it involves a WHOLE discussion around piston, head and breach.
My design works in principle more like an airgun than an airsoft gun. Well not quite... it kind of straddles the line between the two. Argggg, I have not figured out how to get into that discussion yet. It may be easier to post them and just not talk about it and let the performance if any tell the story. It will seem odd to many.
Perhaps Monday I will get into my one piece machined billet trigger box and trigger.
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My design works in principle more like an airgun than an airsoft gun. Well not quite... it kind of straddles the line between the two. Argggg, I have not figured out how to get into that discussion yet. It may be easier to post them and just not talk about it and let the performance if any tell the story. It will seem odd to many.
Perhaps Monday I will get into my one piece machined billet trigger box and trigger.
Piston - It is done actually. It has been refined meaning I need to freaking do it again like every other part. Yes I will post it soon enough. I'll post the cylinder. Not anything amazing just a shiny chrome tube. The head, that is gonna require dialog.
Barrels - I am using Mad Bull barrels currently. A guy locally can make 1500 mm barrels down to 5.80. I may do that. Not sure. Obviously I will use the mad bull for a proof of concept since it is cheap. I got the 7075 650mm version that I will need to cut down. Ohh yes, along with no bucking is no hop up in the barrel.
Trigger - I started using AR15 triggers but decided to make my own. Indie the one piece machined trigger box is my own design 4130 custom fabricated deal.
Speaking of trigger, I came up with yet another trigger for the VSR but after seeing 5 on the market and realizing that that will not make the gun more precise I dropped it. What is in here is actually simpler and looks more like the L96 type of set up, just larger and on steroids. Lots of steroids.
Since I got to do whatever I wanted I got to make as much room as I needed for what ever I needed when it came to the trigger box.
Of course now I have like 4 other ways to do it too. In the end you just have to settle on one design and go. Everything has trade offs. It is easy do not build anything until design is finalized but you will never do anything since design in never finalized. Makes is spendy when you discover you made mistakes.
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Barrels - I am using Mad Bull barrels currently. A guy locally can make 1500 mm barrels down to 5.80. I may do that. Not sure. Obviously I will use the mad bull for a proof of concept since it is cheap. I got the 7075 650mm version that I will need to cut down. Ohh yes, along with no bucking is no hop up in the barrel.
Trigger - I started using AR15 triggers but decided to make my own. Indie the one piece machined trigger box is my own design 4130 custom fabricated deal.
Speaking of trigger, I came up with yet another trigger for the VSR but after seeing 5 on the market and realizing that that will not make the gun more precise I dropped it. What is in here is actually simpler and looks more like the L96 type of set up, just larger and on steroids. Lots of steroids.
Since I got to do whatever I wanted I got to make as much room as I needed for what ever I needed when it came to the trigger box.
Of course now I have like 4 other ways to do it too. In the end you just have to settle on one design and go. Everything has trade offs. It is easy do not build anything until design is finalized but you will never do anything since design in never finalized. Makes is spendy when you discover you made mistakes.
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Well, I want to know how you plan on getting plastic 300' away without hop up.
High fps (long/big cylinder with lots of air volume)? Plastic pellets?
How are the 'mags' going to work, or will it be a built in tube that you feed into?
Lastly (for now), do you have the body/receiver done?
The great thing about your project is that I've been thinking of doing something like this, but not as extreme (just a custom parted VSR or the like), because even though I love my ASR, it sometimes makes me very mad when it fails on me.
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I love what your doing, and since you seem to be building several at once, I assume you are going to be selling. If so, I call dibs (unless I can't get enough cash even if I sell my car to buy one).
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High fps (long/big cylinder with lots of air volume)? Plastic pellets?
How are the 'mags' going to work, or will it be a built in tube that you feed into?
Lastly (for now), do you have the body/receiver done?
The great thing about your project is that I've been thinking of doing something like this, but not as extreme (just a custom parted VSR or the like), because even though I love my ASR, it sometimes makes me very mad when it fails on me.
" title="" border="0"/> I love what your doing, and since you seem to be building several at once, I assume you are going to be selling. If so, I call dibs (unless I can't get enough cash even if I sell my car to buy one).
I am making 3 so I have a platform to make changes to to compare.
Alas, magazines is part of the problem or at least according to how I see it.
The guiding principle is make a gun precise then worry about form. Thus will be no magazine, single round fed like a pellet gun.
If it is accurate like I hope it will be (maybe I am crazy though) then you have time to plan and execute shots. Like real snipers do. No need to pop em off rapid fire.
Body is not done, I still have a long way to go since this is part time.
I have these laying around from the previous shell ejecting model I had. Before I threw all that out that is. I would just wind up with yet another about the same every other gun.
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I went as simple as possible to eliminate all variance. I did not want to introduce variance for convenience. Something different needs to be done. Hence the rethinking part.
Alas, magazines is part of the problem or at least according to how I see it.
The guiding principle is make a gun precise then worry about form. Thus will be no magazine, single round fed like a pellet gun.
If it is accurate like I hope it will be (maybe I am crazy though) then you have time to plan and execute shots. Like real snipers do. No need to pop em off rapid fire.
Body is not done, I still have a long way to go since this is part time.
I have these laying around from the previous shell ejecting model I had. Before I threw all that out that is. I would just wind up with yet another about the same every other gun.
I went as simple as possible to eliminate all variance. I did not want to introduce variance for convenience. Something different needs to be done. Hence the rethinking part.
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25 Posts
Any chance you could give us a little more info on the hopup? Such as where it is located in the system? Sounds like whatever it is it's not going to be a normal design.
Is the basic system going to be roughly the same with a nozzle loading the BB, the piston coming back and catching the sear then firing air forward through the nozzle? Are there going to be less or more parts in the system overall?
Are you planning to put some sort of finish on the parts or just leave them silver?
Amazing work thus far, I'd love to see some more info on the internals.
Is the basic system going to be roughly the same with a nozzle loading the BB, the piston coming back and catching the sear then firing air forward through the nozzle? Are there going to be less or more parts in the system overall?
Are you planning to put some sort of finish on the parts or just leave them silver?
Amazing work thus far, I'd love to see some more info on the internals.
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2,180 Posts
I only saw this thread and I think I just came...
There is a piston, I'll post that it is solid billet steel. Concept is the same in terms of piston and sears. As far as the cylinder cap and breach and hop up I may not be able to share.
It may be patentable and if I make it public I loose that option. Of course I would not patent anything until I see if it actually works. Thus details about the secret sauce will be few.
Here is the piston, It it turned from solid 12L14 steel. It has some real mass. Of course about now people are thinking to themselves "airsoft pistons are light". Yes, yes they are. Match air rifles actually have piston head weights. Since this straddles the line between airsoft and air rifle it will require a heavy piston.
Of course I have to actually fire one to know for sure. On paper it makes sense. We'll see about real life though. :-/
Yes this to has half a dozen design changes as well still to come. This is v1, I am up to V1.6. Damn this is spendy....
I should have cleaned it first ha ha.
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The fiber filled rubber pad is just laying on there for illustration, it gets mounted with a specific glue.
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O-ring is a Millitray spec Viton Duro 75 unit. Strong, tough and has ability to withstand high temperatures. BMW uses these in the VANOS system due to toughness. It is close to 6mm wide.
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It may be patentable and if I make it public I loose that option. Of course I would not patent anything until I see if it actually works. Thus details about the secret sauce will be few.
Here is the piston, It it turned from solid 12L14 steel. It has some real mass. Of course about now people are thinking to themselves "airsoft pistons are light". Yes, yes they are. Match air rifles actually have piston head weights. Since this straddles the line between airsoft and air rifle it will require a heavy piston.
Of course I have to actually fire one to know for sure. On paper it makes sense. We'll see about real life though. :-/
Yes this to has half a dozen design changes as well still to come. This is v1, I am up to V1.6. Damn this is spendy....
I should have cleaned it first ha ha.
The fiber filled rubber pad is just laying on there for illustration, it gets mounted with a specific glue.
O-ring is a Millitray spec Viton Duro 75 unit. Strong, tough and has ability to withstand high temperatures. BMW uses these in the VANOS system due to toughness. It is close to 6mm wide.
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807 Posts
Oh common man, this is better than pron for guys like usBeckLR1 said:
But in all seriousness I completely understand where youre comming from, I guess the rest of us will just have to wonder
I do have 2 questions for you I guess.
1. Why did you choose to have two size/type of O-Rings on your piston? Wouldn't that just make it more difficult to build?
2. Can you at least tease us a little more and tell us if the hop up is fixed or adjustable?
Edit:
Oh, also, you mentioned that there was a guy "local" to you that can do custom barrels? Generally, where ar you located?
1. There is one o-ring actually the white things are Teflon sliders to center the piston front to back. I actually added a few other things not seen in this V1 model.
The o-ring in my hand is the one on the piston. I was just showing it on and off the piston. It is quite big. Perhaps I am overcompensating for something ha ha. The bit o the front is a high impact absorber. Courtesy of plumbing supply and yes, I machined the piston based on that specific size.
Some ties I find bits and adjust drawings around that bit sometimes I make drawings then scour the world for a specific bit in a specific size.
You have no idea how long it took to arrive at part sizes in-line with parts available. Nothing worse than designing and finding you can not get an o-ring you need. Then you have to redesign everything and that changes other things. Maddening. I have been at this about 14 months now. It took 8 months just to finalize to a point I can make parts. Even then it has changes somewhat but the basic design is in tact which tells me I am on track. Most changes have been refinements and optimizations. No redesign at this point.
2. The hop up is fixed, adjustable and dynamic. Or remove it all together for none. More on that later.
I am in Scottsdale Arizona.
The o-ring in my hand is the one on the piston. I was just showing it on and off the piston. It is quite big. Perhaps I am overcompensating for something ha ha. The bit o the front is a high impact absorber. Courtesy of plumbing supply and yes, I machined the piston based on that specific size.
Some ties I find bits and adjust drawings around that bit sometimes I make drawings then scour the world for a specific bit in a specific size.
You have no idea how long it took to arrive at part sizes in-line with parts available. Nothing worse than designing and finding you can not get an o-ring you need. Then you have to redesign everything and that changes other things. Maddening. I have been at this about 14 months now. It took 8 months just to finalize to a point I can make parts. Even then it has changes somewhat but the basic design is in tact which tells me I am on track. Most changes have been refinements and optimizations. No redesign at this point.
2. The hop up is fixed, adjustable and dynamic. Or remove it all together for none. More on that later.
I am in Scottsdale Arizona.
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807 Posts
Yeah, thats 90% of the headache with making potato cannons too.BeckLR1 said:
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