So you want to be a airsoft sniper?
This is a long post I put on my group forum awhile ago, I am cross posting it here as I felt it would add to this topic and help a beginner that is just thinking about getting into airsoft sniping:
I have a used (to me) TM VSR 10, and really like it. It was upgraded when I bought it and I have continued to do so. The latest is a telfon cylinder bore, which is fantastic. Anyway, I am NOT home right now so I will revisit this thread later: In the mean time here are some links to other threads on this forum that may help you out. If you have specific questions post them up.
http://www.c3airsoft.com/showthread....path+of+sniper
http://www.c3airsoft.com/showthread....ghlight=sniper
Cut from one of my other posts but pertinent:
I for one agree with WWIII_USMC, you will find that most of us that do use a sniper rifle in this group will. You may find a decent starting place for a sniper rifle for $150, especially if you start with a JG, BAR 10 or a TM, VSR10 used. The UTG mk96 is a low end sniper but is still somewhat limited in upgrade ability so I would stick to the first two. The Super 9 is absolute crap in my experience both using it and hitting someone else I out ranged with a STOCK TM M14.
I mentioned these are starting places.
in my VSR10 which I bought used I have this:
Tokyo Marui VSR-10 **PRO version** $220.00 SOLD
Included:
-rifle $180.00
-scope $30.00
-.30g BB's $22.00
-1 magazine @29 rounds
-aluminum piston (NOT in the cylinder already) $50.00
-Dees custom 6.01mm x430mm barrel $60.00
-package of papers
-box
-150sp spring (in cylinder already) $15.00
to this I added two magazines, a different scope, a hop up bucking upgrade a new trigger sear, a new cylinder and piston guide. This is the minimum and I still don't have much advantage over a well upgraded AEG. When my trigger sear wears out again (common with upgraded springs. I'll add a laylax zero trigger which cost more than your budget of $150 on average.
To have any advantage over a quality AEG be prepared to spend 4 to 6 times your budget to have a minuscule advantage in range and a moderate advantage in accuracy. Even then you will have no firepower in terms of Rate of fire and be prepared to be peppered with hundreds of BBs. The good news is lots of players buy a sniper rifle and a few even upgraded it and find out that they don't like crawling in the bugs, snagging on thickets and generally be bored until they get a shot and then get owned by several AEGs, so used sniper rifle starting points are fairly common. To reiterate GET A AEG to start out with, we are trying to keep you from throwing your money away and being disappointed. If you still l want to use a sniper rifle use the search button and type in VSR 10, BAR10, and sniper rifle, read and comprehend the posts on those threads. ask your questions here in this thread and reference any old posts with a link (so you don't necro post) Lots of us do like to take the role of a sniper or designated marksman, I find it challenging and fun, I especially like hiding unseen and picking off opponents (rare that that happens) I like having someone walk past (or even on me) unknowingly. But this happens infrequently, if you are moving you are obvious to all (I look like a wookie is the brush) and low speed, high drag. when you are still and in your hide, you are invisible and usually out of position.
Last edited by Jeep : 07-22-2008 at 12:48 PM.
Some links to some other forums, and retail locations to start you on your search:
http://squeegie.proboards21.com/index.cgi This is OSOK, a sniper paintball forum but a lot of information apply to sniping in airsoft as well
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/in...p?showforum=87
Airsoft forum is a large national board with a little more expertice than just my opinion in this response. Especially in the stickies
http://airsoftsniper.proboards107.com/index.cgi
http://www.ghilliesuits.com/
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/in...459&hl=Ghillie
This is a pretty decent thread that may answer other questions:
http://www.c3airsoft.com/showthread....ht=sniper+role
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/in...=upgrade+guide
Ok, I have a little more time now. Please correct me if I make a couple of wrong assumptions here and their are a lot of very good players here with more information that you should pay heed to. Some of which have already done so and hopefully the rest will chime in soon. In the mean time if you have not hit the links that have been posted here and done a search, DO SO NOW. If you have a specific question, instead of reviving a dead post. post your question here and post a link to the thread in question.
Lets look for a second on what the advantages are of a air soft replica sniper rifle and the role that you play with them. You said that you already have AEGs, Good, 99% of the time that is what you should be using on the field to be effective and safe. please post up what they are and why you don't like them specifically, we can help with that too. Let me try to explain about snipers roles, sniper rifle replicas and BBs and cost there of, I think it will clear things up a little.
A sniper rifle either gas or springer only has one real advantage over a AEG in this group. in that a SEMI only sniper rifle may exceed 400fps to a hard maximum of 500fps with .20 BBs. This is also subject to a 50' minimum or more engagement range so you don't hurt someone with it. This will allow you to have a minuscule increase in range with a heavier BB than a AEG with .20 gram BBs . The BB will also travel nearly as far as a upgraded AEG but may travel that distance a wee bit faster. Lets break that down.
Why a heavier BB? they would travel slower than a lighter one right? This is true but a heavier BB will carry its energy farther than a lighter one. This means that out of the barrel a .20 will go a bit faster than say a .25 or .30 gram BB but that .20 will bleed off that velocity faster as it travels down range than a .25 or even a .30 the lighter .20 also are subject more to the environment, leaves wind, dirt make them a bit more inaccurate than the heavier BBs over distances. In effect at lets say 100 feet the heavier .3 BB will have high fps velocity than a .20 BB So having a single shot sniper rifle allows you to shoot a heavier BB a little faster and a little farther than a AEG this is not much of a advantage but every little bit helps.
Speaking of which, In the case of a springer, it may be quieter than a AEG or gas gun. Quieter is good, but only works if you have superb field craft in the shot in thefirst place. Even then its only good for one to three shots before all those targets know your around and start beating the bush for you or more than likely hosing the likely spots down with a hail off BBs in recon by fire. Then you have no firepower (unless you are carrying a AEG as a back up) and All those targets are going to close on you from all direction until you are taken out. You just diverted the enemy team for a while, This is good in some circumstances but its a lot of challenging work to get in to a good hide and it does not last long once you are there. Also keep in mind that there are some players that have upgraded their AEGs to the point that they have become DMRs (designated Marksmen Rifle) These are able to but out a BB at or near 400fps (with .20) as accuratly as you do, and I for one usually use .23 or .25 in mine so your advantages over me or any onther DMR are very small and I am closing on you and I have firepower to boot, Not much of advantage either.
Cost: It has been said that a decent sniper rifle is going to cost you dearly. I bought mine used and have already posted what it cost. in addition I have added a several other items: but lets look over what I have spent and why:
Reference this forum post to see the guts of a VSR10 (BAR 10 is the same)
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/lo...hp/t81253.html
Tokyo Marui VSR-10 **PRO version** $220.00 SOLD
Included:
-rifle $180.00
-scope $30.00
-.30g BB's $22.00
-1 magazine @29 rounds
-aluminum piston (NOT in the cylinder already) $50.00
-Dees custom 6.01mm x430mm barrel $60.00
-package of papers
-box
-150sp spring (in cylinder already) $15.00
In addition I have added a new hardened trigger sear ($25), this is frequently necessary on any springer sniper rifle with a upgraded Spring, Honestly, my old one did not look bad either, it does not take much wear to not hold the piston in place so its necessary. A better solution is a laylax zero trigger, Which is very very expensive $150 or so and use its own piston.
added a small rail and a weaver ttpe bipod ($55)
installed the red type piston (that was included in the deal)
telfon tape and a minor tweaking of the air break.
This brought me up to a hot 410 fps with .20 and I expected more from a 150sp spring.
To this I just installed a Teflon coated cylinder bore by laylax( $130 )as suggested to me at BR2 when it chronoed so low. (Keep in mind that I use .25, .29 and .30 BBs on the field) Judging form how much easier it is to cycle the bolt I expect a big FPS jump, maybe even to big a jump.
See even with the screaming great deal I got from another player I have spent a good bit to have the accuracy and range advantage. This is also a budget sniper rifle there are at least a dozen other players here with replicas superior to mine, But they have paid more for it too.
Want to know what is more effective than all this above: Why Dave kills us all, the grand secrete on why certain players are players are known to be sneaky little bastards? Superior fieldcraft, and team work and camoflage but this is another post.
It has been said over and over Airsofting is not real life, real people thankfully do not die, ranges are better than paintball but not really far either. It is not a video game like COD4 or counter strike, Bunny hopping will get you laughed at (a lot) dolphin diving will get you busted up and laughed at. and sniper rifles are NOT THE HAND OF GOD WEAPONS OF DOOM! I need you to be aware of this because if you di the searching of just this forum you would notice how many times this has come up in the past.
Looking back on my post I never got into the role of a sniper in airsoft. With exception of a few sniper hunt/ defend the VIP mission that we sometimes run. Most snipers are not off lone wolf hunting, if they are they are NOT being effective for their team. Taking the role of a sniper especially in big games and operations should be a supporting role much like a SAW gunner. You should be as a sniper supporting your squad in a direct or more usually in a indirect manner.
What I have found is that while you are off with your spotter hunting targets of opportunity, the game goes merrily off with out you so you may pick off one or two leaders or liaisons or maybe a squad will get diverted from what they are supposed to be doing but more often than naught while you sneak stealthily off in the woods you will pop up 2 to 40 minutes after it mattered or would have made a difference (or after the game is over, don't ask me how many times this has happened to me, I am sure someone will tell you) In effect while sneaking around by your self you are not helping your team any more than if you would have been in the dead box!
To support your squad in a direct manner means that you have used your superior field craft to get into a hidden position (With excellent camouflage) that allows you to pick off enemy leaders, support gunners, DMRs and liaisons with direct aimed fire while your squad mates move up in over watch Thus keeping the enemy pinned down. This allows you to make the kills. The thing is a DMR AEG is better at this because it allow YOU to add to the covering fire. Alternatively, You can use your greater accuracy to counter someone doing the above to your squad. Even better at this sort of platoon movement is a squad of a pair or fire teams instead of a two man sniper team with one AEG and a bolt action sniper rifle.
Now supporting your squad/team in a indirect manner, this is tricky. This is very close to going off hunting BUT you and your spotter should be in direct and constant communication with your squad and /or command. You generally will NOT be shooting at targets. Instead you will move to a hidden hide a support your squad mates with spotting information. This is difficult because it requires great communication on your part, with information that is necessary and pertinent to the squad leader so he can take action on that information. With your sniper rifles scope and/ or binoculars you should be scanning for enemy movement their size and what they are doing. The problem is you are required to remain unnoticed and the squad leader needs to be willing to listen to use that information.
During Operation Mid-night Sun Cleric and I were a sniper team in support of blue 3 platoon. We were most effective when watching the approaches to two major objectives. When ever we spotted movement we just relaid that information to the platoon leader. This allowed him to move overwhelming forces to meet each enemy force. Once the enemy forces were engaged we could safely pick off hi profile targets and no one was the wiser that we were behind or to their flank, thus not giving our position away and remaining effective. This is a example of indirect support. The danger here is we were NOT helping our teammates anytime that the enemy was not in our sector of the field. Nor were we helpful when our platoon was NOT in a position to use that information for a variety of reason such as, poor radio discipline, no targets simple not in that part of the field just to gloss over some of them.
SO what is required here. Well first knowing the field and being able to communicate with radios were the enemy is on it. Being able to use your scopes to spot enemy unit movement with enough time to use that information in support of a squad. Being able to move into a position that is worth being in and remaining their unnoticed (and bored) and remain unnoticed even when the enemy literally is standing on top of you. The last thing is a a uber sniper rifle as the range and accuracy are second to radio and navigation skills It even less important than camouflages skills.
Camouflages and ghillies:
I am of the opinion that making your ghillie suit is a rite of passage, it is tedious and boring and not a little frustrating. But then again of the four I own 3 of them started store bought.
To be effective a ghillie should be matched towards the area you are working in. This can me done by adding and subtracting appropriate jutes and colors (with spray paint) and adding veg. One of the advantages of a commercial ghillie is: they are usually treated against mildew and a FIRE RETARDANT. This is why I have four, different terrain and seasons Adding vegitationto a ghillie is THE SINGLE BEST REASON a ghillie suit blends as well as it should, that is to work as well as it could you should be veging up your ghillie I find it a lot of annoyance and time consuming and honestly I don't often bother, because, My life does not depend on it, and it frequently does not matter much as you move around to fast in airsoft to be really effective anyway.
There are different types of ghillie suits as well some offer superior concealment and others greater mobility or range of movement.
The military uses what is referred to as a crawl suit, superior prone concealment when prone or crawling. this usually only had jute and veg over the back side of the complete body and padded skids on the front. It is very slow moving in a crawl suit. My homemade suit was one of these, I believe Spearsquad also uses a crawl suit. Next is a full suit, I have one of these in a two piece affair a jacket and pants. Jute is covering all sides of the jacket and pants, Not so good for crawling or prone movement, But your remain concealed when sitting or standing STILL, otherwise you are Chewbacca running in the woods. In my case I have two ghillie capes (long) These are just the netting and jute NOT sewn to a undergarment allowing a lot of versatility. They are a little cooler and a little more mobile. mine have long sleeves a hood a pull over your head that comes half way down your (my) chest and a long tail that goes down my back and legs and drags actually behind me getting caught on every thing. The last pattern to ghillies is what is called a tracker. it is basically a hood and sleeves and maybe a small chest piece meant to be worn with regular BDU uniforms. It allows normal movement but will break up head and shoulders your silhouette offering a little better concealment in the brush.
As you move in a ghillie you will quickly learn that you are a giant wookee looking thing that gets caught up on every little twig in the woods, You will exemplify HIGH DRAG and LOW SPEED making it very very difficult to move quickly unnoticed into a hide. There by making you very difficult to be useful to your team/platoon/squad. However, if you have properly prepared your ghillie you can be nigh invisible to other players right up to being stepped on.
Their are a couple of game related safety thing to add to this GHILLIES ARE FRECKING HOT!!! You need to be properly hydrated and remain hydrated for your own safety.
The second game related thing is you need to beware that all that vegetation and jute tends to suck BB strikes so if their is the slighted chance that you were hit, You should have enough honor to call your self out whether or not you were hit or not is immaterial. This is difficult sometimes because once the target find out that you are around in a ghillie they will fire up every little bush blindly. Just beware of it and if their is doubt do the right thing.
The last is you need to beware of minimum engagement ranges at all times. Your upgraded sniper minimum engagement range often prevents you from shooting at targets unless you have a really good pistol and/or a small AEG (I use a KWA glock 17 and a Echo 1 MP5A5 (upgraded for ROF))