Tanaka M40A1
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What would you like to know?
Tanaka M700 are all the same internally and on all version the only think that changes is the stock and the outer barrel.
The M40 released in 2 versions one with polymer and one with wood stock.
You'll probably will hear about pre ban and post ban versions... The pre and post ban rifles are exactly the same except the bolt.
On the pre ban rifles the bolt is equipped with an unrestricted nozzle and PCS(Power Control System).
The PSC is nothing weird is simply a bolt that regulates the gas flow, you can adjust the fps at field limits but most users simply leave it max setting so it's useless, besides you can do that with far more accuracy with an external rig.
This is the PCS bolt
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This is the restricted nozzle
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The unrestricted is this..
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The standard piece that brakes is the part 91 the hop up housing.
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There are metal housings available.
The most common upgrade parts are the Hop Up Housing (Part 91), the VSR conversion hop up chambers ( you'll also need and a VSR cut barrel), 9ball VSR purple (hard) bucking, the power pack (durability upgrade, it didn't fit in both my M700's!! ), power bolt (you'll also need to mod your bolt handle and it doesn't work with VSR conversion kit with out mod), steel sear.
IMO Tanaka's are way overrated and over priced, everything is made by cheap pot metal that will fail sooner or later.
The light bolt pull is a nice feature as and the high fps but it's incredibly inconsistent and there are no spare parts like spare trigger springs and stuff like that.
If you need anything else feel free to ask.
Wolf
Tanaka M700 are all the same internally and on all version the only think that changes is the stock and the outer barrel.
The M40 released in 2 versions one with polymer and one with wood stock.
You'll probably will hear about pre ban and post ban versions... The pre and post ban rifles are exactly the same except the bolt.
On the pre ban rifles the bolt is equipped with an unrestricted nozzle and PCS(Power Control System).
The PSC is nothing weird is simply a bolt that regulates the gas flow, you can adjust the fps at field limits but most users simply leave it max setting so it's useless, besides you can do that with far more accuracy with an external rig.
This is the PCS bolt
This is the restricted nozzle
The unrestricted is this..
The standard piece that brakes is the part 91 the hop up housing.
There are metal housings available.
The most common upgrade parts are the Hop Up Housing (Part 91), the VSR conversion hop up chambers ( you'll also need and a VSR cut barrel), 9ball VSR purple (hard) bucking, the power pack (durability upgrade, it didn't fit in both my M700's!! ), power bolt (you'll also need to mod your bolt handle and it doesn't work with VSR conversion kit with out mod), steel sear.
IMO Tanaka's are way overrated and over priced, everything is made by cheap pot metal that will fail sooner or later.
The light bolt pull is a nice feature as and the high fps but it's incredibly inconsistent and there are no spare parts like spare trigger springs and stuff like that.
If you need anything else feel free to ask.
Wolf
I was just waiting for you to comment! ; )
It's just the fact that i've been around so many spring rifles that I would like to try and venture out to other parts of the airsoft world; being gas rifles. I only really asked about this specific rifle seeing as it looked pretty decent and that Tanaka seemed to be a common brand of gas rifle thrown around on this forum!
I do have the Ares Cheytac M200 which I have extensively modified with all-sorts of hidden extra's, although this rifle has been used on the field a lot, It has cost me an extreme amount of money which I cannot simply uphold anymore seeing as thing in life are changing at the moment so it would be nice to have a new rifle where parts are more easily available and won't break the bank TOO much.
So really Im open to offers! I know you are a big gas and classic rifle fan from what i've gathered on the forum but to be honest, I don't really have my mindset on any particular rifle so if you could enlighten me, which Im VERY sure you will :tup:, I would be extremely grateful : )
Zero
It's just the fact that i've been around so many spring rifles that I would like to try and venture out to other parts of the airsoft world; being gas rifles. I only really asked about this specific rifle seeing as it looked pretty decent and that Tanaka seemed to be a common brand of gas rifle thrown around on this forum!
I do have the Ares Cheytac M200 which I have extensively modified with all-sorts of hidden extra's, although this rifle has been used on the field a lot, It has cost me an extreme amount of money which I cannot simply uphold anymore seeing as thing in life are changing at the moment so it would be nice to have a new rifle where parts are more easily available and won't break the bank TOO much.
So really Im open to offers! I know you are a big gas and classic rifle fan from what i've gathered on the forum but to be honest, I don't really have my mindset on any particular rifle so if you could enlighten me, which Im VERY sure you will :tup:, I would be extremely grateful : )
Zero
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6,344 Posts
Sorry man .... I already own an Ares M200!
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What kind of mods have you done? I'd love to hear.
Wolf
What kind of mods have you done? I'd love to hear.
Wolf
Thats dope man! :cheers:
First off, the magazines (gas) were like f'cked out off the box excuse my language, so we took them apart and re-greased and o-ringed (brought from the local hardware store, they sell EVERYTHING >
) them to make sure they would be able to hold propane (green gas) seeing as Im running the rifle with the gas bolt, rather than the spring.
Secondly, the hop decided it just didn't want to work! :shrug: A friend of mine who is a machinist said he could help out and took the rifle from me for around a month, leaving me with a bill of around £500 (and thats only charging me mates rates!) and a TBB. I honestly don't know what he has done to the hop and barrel but Im getting a stupid amount of range and accuracy! My guess is that he machined a new barrel and re-built the hop but Im still not sure.
Other than that, that is really all of the internal work which has been done. Externally though, the gun has had a new scope (Leopold MK4 50mm rifles scope with sunshade, a new coat of paint (although it's the stock black at the moment) and Im currently enquiring with a friend, the machinist, to see if we can get some sort of suppressor built up somehow.
How is yours anyway? Ever encountered any problems with her? Skirmished her?
Zero
First off, the magazines (gas) were like f'cked out off the box excuse my language, so we took them apart and re-greased and o-ringed (brought from the local hardware store, they sell EVERYTHING >
) them to make sure they would be able to hold propane (green gas) seeing as Im running the rifle with the gas bolt, rather than the spring.Secondly, the hop decided it just didn't want to work! :shrug: A friend of mine who is a machinist said he could help out and took the rifle from me for around a month, leaving me with a bill of around £500 (and thats only charging me mates rates!) and a TBB. I honestly don't know what he has done to the hop and barrel but Im getting a stupid amount of range and accuracy! My guess is that he machined a new barrel and re-built the hop but Im still not sure.
Other than that, that is really all of the internal work which has been done. Externally though, the gun has had a new scope (Leopold MK4 50mm rifles scope with sunshade, a new coat of paint (although it's the stock black at the moment) and Im currently enquiring with a friend, the machinist, to see if we can get some sort of suppressor built up somehow.
How is yours anyway? Ever encountered any problems with her? Skirmished her?
Zero
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6,344 Posts
I've changed the gas mags o-rings the first day I got it!!
I raised just a bit the o-ring on the bolt for better seal, mine also came with the hop up unscrewed!
I installed a Deep Fire 6.02 800mm inner barrel with Systema bucking, I made some spacers and that's about it! I was shooting at 580 fps with propane.
Now I installed that barrel to my Barrett...
I've never skirmished the M200 though... I have it just for collection since I can't sell it now...! Everybody wants it at the price of Beta Project so I just keep it.
Wolf
I raised just a bit the o-ring on the bolt for better seal, mine also came with the hop up unscrewed!
I installed a Deep Fire 6.02 800mm inner barrel with Systema bucking, I made some spacers and that's about it! I was shooting at 580 fps with propane.
Now I installed that barrel to my Barrett...
I've never skirmished the M200 though... I have it just for collection since I can't sell it now...! Everybody wants it at the price of Beta Project so I just keep it.
Wolf
Cool! : )
I've got barrel spacers as well, I just forgot to say :L I use .43's in mine anyway. Whether the beta project is any good though.. Ares only made limited numbers though so it *should* become a classic rifle once time moves it'self along. Still a great centre piece to any collection though, I personally think that the M200 is one of those rifles which failed the move between real steel and airsoft.
What would you recommend for a gas/project rifle which can be fielded anyway?
Zero
I've got barrel spacers as well, I just forgot to say :L I use .43's in mine anyway. Whether the beta project is any good though.. Ares only made limited numbers though so it *should* become a classic rifle once time moves it'self along. Still a great centre piece to any collection though, I personally think that the M200 is one of those rifles which failed the move between real steel and airsoft.
What would you recommend for a gas/project rifle which can be fielded anyway?
Zero
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6,344 Posts
Classics...!
Tanaka's problems that noone besides me talk about, Ares are very good looking but POS, I own 3 Ares 2 gas(M200 and DSR1) and a springer (WA2000) and all are [email protected]! Do a search on Reezo's M40 on this forum and read there about Tanaka!
I'm seriously considering the KJW 10/22, it's GBB tho but from what I've read it's reliable, semi auto only and has pretty good accuracy and there's also RATech with upgrade parts for it.
The ultimate gas sniper rifle is the Asahi WA2000 but it's rare and expensive and not many owners are going to skirmish with it.
Many companies abandoned the gas BASRs because of the known problems, Ares start to produce springers, WA2K, the new AW338, the M40A3 will be springer...
Many of the old companies produced gas cylinders for their rifles, such companies were Sun Project, Maruzen, Classic Army... None of these are produced now.
The only skirmishable gas gun ATM is Tanaka and KJW M700 I'm afraid!
Wolf
Tanaka's problems that noone besides me talk about, Ares are very good looking but POS, I own 3 Ares 2 gas(M200 and DSR1) and a springer (WA2000) and all are [email protected]! Do a search on Reezo's M40 on this forum and read there about Tanaka!
I'm seriously considering the KJW 10/22, it's GBB tho but from what I've read it's reliable, semi auto only and has pretty good accuracy and there's also RATech with upgrade parts for it.
The ultimate gas sniper rifle is the Asahi WA2000 but it's rare and expensive and not many owners are going to skirmish with it.
Many companies abandoned the gas BASRs because of the known problems, Ares start to produce springers, WA2K, the new AW338, the M40A3 will be springer...
Many of the old companies produced gas cylinders for their rifles, such companies were Sun Project, Maruzen, Classic Army... None of these are produced now.
The only skirmishable gas gun ATM is Tanaka and KJW M700 I'm afraid!
Wolf
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398 Posts
cant forget G&G, they have a Gas L96 and Kar98 out now, for the money though i would go with the KJW M700. It already uses VSR buckings, and can take the Tanaka long mags
Thanks for the info anyway guys! Much appreciated : ) I have seen some of the gas G&G rifles and they don't seem bad but I can't seem to find a great deal on them for some reason or another :L
It just seems the airsoft BASR market is saturated to springers which gets a little, 'boring', seeing as thats all you see on the fields these days!
Zero
It just seems the airsoft BASR market is saturated to springers which gets a little, 'boring', seeing as thats all you see on the fields these days!
Zero
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398 Posts
I would look at getting the KJW M700, more common and honestly about as good out of the box, except the KJW is half the price.
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Basically I've forgot G&G!!
Actually they have more steel parts in them than any other gun!!
I haven't used one though so I can't talk about them.
Wolf
Actually they have more steel parts in them than any other gun!!
I haven't used one though so I can't talk about them.
Wolf
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536 Posts
Hi there! I am chiming in with my Tanaka M40A1. It has been my first (still have it) airsoft rifle and I've put so much money in it, it's kinda ridiculous.
Airsoft for me started as a project-gun type of hobby, so developing and upgrading my M40A1 was the fun I was looking for. It almost made me believe that every airsoft gun HAS to be upgraded because stock conditions are horrible..this just to tell you that a stock Tanaka M40A1 or M700 (as per the KJW) are probably going to behave average if not below average compared to spring rifles.
This is what you have to solve on Tanaka sniper rifles like mine:
1) Gas inconsistency: use a 29rnd long magazine (more consistent because of more gas volume) and get an external HPA rig
2) Wear and tear: most internal parts need reinforcements because of being plastic (part 91 WILL break on you) or metal put under heavy force: replace one with a steel part, you will need to replace EVERYTHING with steel..because steel parts will wear normal metal parts more and more..
3) Accuracy: drop the Tanaka hop up and get a VSR-like conversion, use good buckings like the Nine Ball Purple or get yourself an R-Hop.
4) More internals: a Prometheus 6.03 555mm inner barrel might be a nice addition. Barrel spacers would be nice, too along with any kind of wobble removal to make the internals as sturdy and one-piece-like as possible. This will ensure the kinetic energy from the gas emission will translate into BB energy as much as possible.
A ready-to-go platform would be the KJW KC02, which seems pretty nice, or MAYBE a G&G G96..not sure about it.
The KJW M700 is pretty popular.
Personal opinion: I'd never stray from gas guns. The internal mechanics and such tend to be as close to the real steel as possible for airsoft platforms..and this is personally what I use airsoft guns for: learning the discipline, handling and tactical operations while still not having my gun permit (here in my country you would not be able to own/carry/use a tactical carbine anyway).
Airsoft for me started as a project-gun type of hobby, so developing and upgrading my M40A1 was the fun I was looking for. It almost made me believe that every airsoft gun HAS to be upgraded because stock conditions are horrible..this just to tell you that a stock Tanaka M40A1 or M700 (as per the KJW) are probably going to behave average if not below average compared to spring rifles.
This is what you have to solve on Tanaka sniper rifles like mine:
1) Gas inconsistency: use a 29rnd long magazine (more consistent because of more gas volume) and get an external HPA rig
2) Wear and tear: most internal parts need reinforcements because of being plastic (part 91 WILL break on you) or metal put under heavy force: replace one with a steel part, you will need to replace EVERYTHING with steel..because steel parts will wear normal metal parts more and more..
3) Accuracy: drop the Tanaka hop up and get a VSR-like conversion, use good buckings like the Nine Ball Purple or get yourself an R-Hop.
4) More internals: a Prometheus 6.03 555mm inner barrel might be a nice addition. Barrel spacers would be nice, too along with any kind of wobble removal to make the internals as sturdy and one-piece-like as possible. This will ensure the kinetic energy from the gas emission will translate into BB energy as much as possible.
A ready-to-go platform would be the KJW KC02, which seems pretty nice, or MAYBE a G&G G96..not sure about it.
The KJW M700 is pretty popular.
Personal opinion: I'd never stray from gas guns. The internal mechanics and such tend to be as close to the real steel as possible for airsoft platforms..and this is personally what I use airsoft guns for: learning the discipline, handling and tactical operations while still not having my gun permit (here in my country you would not be able to own/carry/use a tactical carbine anyway).
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Its all personal choice...Im feel the opposite way from wolf in ways.
Ive owned and upgraded pretty much all the standard spring rifles on the market.I had a vsr that shot ridiculously well and was the only gun I consistently used from its release until around two years ago when I had to sell it.
Ive also had 3 tanakas as well and have loved everyone off them.My current main rifle is a tanaka LTR with upgrades.
Yes they are expensive,but I wouldn't say anymore than a vsr when you add the cost off all the upgrades need for both rifles to shoot well.(bar an external rig)
Yes the vsr will preform better due to being spring and still having the edge hop wise.
But there is just something about the tanakas that make them a joy to use.I rely heavily on concealment as a lot of snipers do and being able to move the bolt 2 inches with no force is great,also add a silencer and no spring rifle will come close to how quiet they are.
Parts are not the best made and there isn't much support for them compared to spring rifles,but this is just something you have to work around.
I would say though that they do take a lot more work and knowledge to get shooting as well as the likes of a vsr.So they are a good place to learn,but don't expect vsr performance straight away.
Ive owned and upgraded pretty much all the standard spring rifles on the market.I had a vsr that shot ridiculously well and was the only gun I consistently used from its release until around two years ago when I had to sell it.
Ive also had 3 tanakas as well and have loved everyone off them.My current main rifle is a tanaka LTR with upgrades.
Yes they are expensive,but I wouldn't say anymore than a vsr when you add the cost off all the upgrades need for both rifles to shoot well.(bar an external rig)
Yes the vsr will preform better due to being spring and still having the edge hop wise.
But there is just something about the tanakas that make them a joy to use.I rely heavily on concealment as a lot of snipers do and being able to move the bolt 2 inches with no force is great,also add a silencer and no spring rifle will come close to how quiet they are.
Parts are not the best made and there isn't much support for them compared to spring rifles,but this is just something you have to work around.
I would say though that they do take a lot more work and knowledge to get shooting as well as the likes of a vsr.So they are a good place to learn,but don't expect vsr performance straight away.
Forgot you had a Tanaka M40A1 Reezo! :ashamed: The only problem which is bothering me about the rifles at the moment is; are gas rifles more for a showpiece, or can they actually be practical for use in the field? Because if the rifle can be made *useable* in the field, then it's worth buying! But if it's going to be outperformed by a 12yr old with a cheap springer then what is the point?:shrug:
Although, another thing which draws me to the gas rifle is the fact that many of the rifles have real steel trades imprinted on their bodies whereas all of the springers you see don't! Which all in all adds to the real-ism, which I love! But then coming back to the question, is real-ism practical? Or is it just money wasted with extra frustration?
Sorry if this is a kind of rant but I appreciate all the replies this thread has got, :shot: I would like to step into an untouched by me, area of airsoft, but Im questioning the transition to see if it's really worth it. :shrug:
Zero
Although, another thing which draws me to the gas rifle is the fact that many of the rifles have real steel trades imprinted on their bodies whereas all of the springers you see don't! Which all in all adds to the real-ism, which I love! But then coming back to the question, is real-ism practical? Or is it just money wasted with extra frustration?
Sorry if this is a kind of rant but I appreciate all the replies this thread has got, :shot: I would like to step into an untouched by me, area of airsoft, but Im questioning the transition to see if it's really worth it. :shrug:
Zero
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6,344 Posts
As a matter of fact the Tanaka doesn't have real trades!
Tanaka
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As opposed to the springer Sun Project M40XB
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And Asahi M40
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You can make a skirmishable gas rifle but as stated above it needs a lot of research and tuning to make everything to work together.
I've used cheap BAR10 upgraded that was amazingly , the owner never make any maintenance or lubing and it performs amazingly for the last 3 years!
I want to give a go to the GBBRs... I'm thinking either the KJ 10/22 (KC02) (Damn I lost a Tanio Koba 10/22!) or I'll built a custom DMR GBB project...!
Wolf
Tanaka
As opposed to the springer Sun Project M40XB
And Asahi M40
You can make a skirmishable gas rifle but as stated above it needs a lot of research and tuning to make everything to work together.
I've used cheap BAR10 upgraded that was amazingly , the owner never make any maintenance or lubing and it performs amazingly for the last 3 years!
I want to give a go to the GBBRs... I'm thinking either the KJ 10/22 (KC02) (Damn I lost a Tanio Koba 10/22!) or I'll built a custom DMR GBB project...!
Wolf
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536 Posts
No problem, Zero! If you ever need any kind of info, I'll be here to provide what I know, with pleasure.
As I said, for me airsoft is a way to approach some kind of handling and gun experience discipline that I would not be able to either afford AND do legally, in my country. For sniper rifles, the realism factor is somewhat compromised a bit more in comparison to GBB pistols or GBB rifles..but the bolt action in a gas sniper rifle is as realistic as an open bolt real steel..while springers have that weird resistance when pulling the bolt (which might become overwhelming in case of super duper springs) AND they have a closed bolt that makes it either weird when looked inside and impossible to clear a jam (should you ever have one) compared to open bolts.
I can't tell how much money you are going to need on a sniper spring rifle..but I've heard that in airsoft, sniper rifles are expensive PERIOD..no matter how they work or who makes them, to bring a sniper rifle to effectiveness on the field, requires time, some DIY knowledge, lots of versatility and think-ahead and money.
Me personally, I'd never go spring or electric. What I miss from my bolt action rifle is recoil blowback..which is hard to implement on bolt action rifles..also the discipline, weight, trigger factor etc. makes it less important for me (recoil wise) than missing blowback on a carbine or pistol (I am a blowback junkie for those). What I need blowback for is that it makes repeated single fire or burst harder than a static platform..with bolt action rifles your rate of fire is so slow that recoil won't affect the next shot as much..it would be nice to have..because you have to reset your grip, improve your body position etc. in order not to loose sight pictures and any kind of optic correction..
but still..make me a bolt action sniper rifle with blowback and I'll buy
Also, since I don't take my sniper rifle to games..I love it to have massive FPS outputs compared to my carbine and pistol..and bolt action gas rifles are excellent at that, once you have an external air rig. Since I use it for long-term endurance (yes, even bringing it around in your arms during a long walk in the woods IS a challenge by itself) and target shooting, I like to go for heavy rounds and more distant shooting..thus increasing the amount of errors and discipline required in pulling a trigger and replicating the body position after each shot, for building consistency.
..I can't go any further in realism than this, so this is where I have to settle for
As I said, for me airsoft is a way to approach some kind of handling and gun experience discipline that I would not be able to either afford AND do legally, in my country. For sniper rifles, the realism factor is somewhat compromised a bit more in comparison to GBB pistols or GBB rifles..but the bolt action in a gas sniper rifle is as realistic as an open bolt real steel..while springers have that weird resistance when pulling the bolt (which might become overwhelming in case of super duper springs) AND they have a closed bolt that makes it either weird when looked inside and impossible to clear a jam (should you ever have one) compared to open bolts.
I can't tell how much money you are going to need on a sniper spring rifle..but I've heard that in airsoft, sniper rifles are expensive PERIOD..no matter how they work or who makes them, to bring a sniper rifle to effectiveness on the field, requires time, some DIY knowledge, lots of versatility and think-ahead and money.
Me personally, I'd never go spring or electric. What I miss from my bolt action rifle is recoil blowback..which is hard to implement on bolt action rifles..also the discipline, weight, trigger factor etc. makes it less important for me (recoil wise) than missing blowback on a carbine or pistol (I am a blowback junkie for those). What I need blowback for is that it makes repeated single fire or burst harder than a static platform..with bolt action rifles your rate of fire is so slow that recoil won't affect the next shot as much..it would be nice to have..because you have to reset your grip, improve your body position etc. in order not to loose sight pictures and any kind of optic correction..
but still..make me a bolt action sniper rifle with blowback and I'll buy
Also, since I don't take my sniper rifle to games..I love it to have massive FPS outputs compared to my carbine and pistol..and bolt action gas rifles are excellent at that, once you have an external air rig. Since I use it for long-term endurance (yes, even bringing it around in your arms during a long walk in the woods IS a challenge by itself) and target shooting, I like to go for heavy rounds and more distant shooting..thus increasing the amount of errors and discipline required in pulling a trigger and replicating the body position after each shot, for building consistency.
..I can't go any further in realism than this, so this is where I have to settle for
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184 Posts
The KJ 10/22 has got a lot of positive reviews.
Im very tempted to get one also,just waiting to see if I can pick up a cheap second hand one as I do with most my guns now a days.Im just cheap and dont really want to pay full price when I chuck half the parts away.
Im very tempted to get one also,just waiting to see if I can pick up a cheap second hand one as I do with most my guns now a days.Im just cheap and dont really want to pay full price when I chuck half the parts away.
Is it necessary to undermine everything I put wolf? -____- Ok, it's not the real Remington trade, but still does look a dang lot better than the 'Made in China', you get on the springers. :tup:
Thanks for that Reezo! I think i've definitely been persuaded over to the gas precision rifle side of airsoft. Now the only problem I foresee is which rifle I am to buy. :shrug: Could you guys recommend some rifles for me please? Im not a noob to real steel or spring guns as i've been around airsoft for a long time now and don't mind getting my hand dirty gun-smithing, but i've never really ventured into the gas side as you know so if you could select appropriately, that would be much appreciated!
Zero
Thanks for that Reezo! I think i've definitely been persuaded over to the gas precision rifle side of airsoft. Now the only problem I foresee is which rifle I am to buy. :shrug: Could you guys recommend some rifles for me please? Im not a noob to real steel or spring guns as i've been around airsoft for a long time now and don't mind getting my hand dirty gun-smithing, but i've never really ventured into the gas side as you know so if you could select appropriately, that would be much appreciated!
Zero
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184 Posts
The kj works is cheaper and very similar, plus you will change a lot off parts anyway.
All the tanakas are the same bar the stocks and barrel length.
I've owned two a.i.c.s and a ltr. The a.i.c.s is nice but a little heavy after a days use.
The ltr I love,its got a wood stock and slightly shorter barrel,though not by much.
There are a few going on various uk forums just now around the £200-250 mark,if you can get a pcs bolt version as you can get closer to 500fps than with a post ban version(on green they tend to go over 500fps when its hot,I've seen one clock over 600 so you really have to watch)
Also avoid the takedown version and l96,they both use different hop setups.
All the tanakas are the same bar the stocks and barrel length.
I've owned two a.i.c.s and a ltr. The a.i.c.s is nice but a little heavy after a days use.
The ltr I love,its got a wood stock and slightly shorter barrel,though not by much.
There are a few going on various uk forums just now around the £200-250 mark,if you can get a pcs bolt version as you can get closer to 500fps than with a post ban version(on green they tend to go over 500fps when its hot,I've seen one clock over 600 so you really have to watch)
Also avoid the takedown version and l96,they both use different hop setups.
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