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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I have an ICS CXP APE, and I was trying to upgrade it with best in class parts, since I want a top performing gun.I'm from Italy where limit is 1 joule, so I have access to products from EU, but not to USA products, keep this in mind.I went to a tech and asked him I wanted to upgrade my gun with the best products available (performance-wise). My goal was to obtain precision, consistency and silence. I don't care about ROF since I play outdoor and mainly Semi-auto.

He came to me with this upgrade:

Upgrade air seal (shimming, AOE)

Cylinder head V2 FPS

Piston head "tpae" FPS

Steel cylinder FPS

Piston 0-shock FPS

Bucking mapleleaf

Inner barrel prometheus

Titan gate mosfet

Total 330€

Since I'm not a tech guy, I don't know if those are good/bad products, so I am here to ask you if:

  1. are those good/almost best/best parts? Or he's offering me meh-products? I want to just do 1 big upgrade instead of many over the years;
  2. Is the price reasonable? (I think yes but I don't know how much other techs charge)
  3. is there anything he's missing? I know he didn't mention motor and gear, but I think this is because I told him I don't care about ROF (I'm not a speedsofter, more a DMR player).
Any suggestion is welcome.
 

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These parts are more than good enough, however they are not the most expensive (which a lot people here associate with best).
You could use MAXX/SYSTEMA/LAYLAX parts instead of FPS and spend probably an extra hundred or so, but I think FPS is an Italian brand, so your tech was being patriotic lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
These parts are more than good enough, however they are not the most expensive (which a lot people here associate with best).
You could use MAXX/SYSTEMA/LAYLAX parts instead of FPS and spend probably an extra hundred or so, but I think FPS is an Italian brand, so your tech was being patriotic lol.
Yeah but I want the best, not the "good enough" :D
I was scared that he was being too much patriotic lol
 

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Silence and snappy =
-170mm x 6.01mm inner barrel or there about
-Ported Cylinder
-Sorbo on piston head
-16:1 DSG Gear (Or 18:1 DSG)
-Spring to get 1 joule (whatever that is)
-T238 V1.7 mosfet (On Aliexpress)(Allows Precocking and is cheap)
-Use precocking on about level 4-5 (This makes the piston slap at the same time the motor cycles. So short sound)
-220mm long silencer
-Make baffles for the silencer
-18tpa motor or similar (SHS High Torque 16TPA will be fine)
-Lonex Spiral Pinion and Bevel Gear set
-11.1v Lipo

I have an M4 that is 80dB and it is 1.1 joules. A Socom which is extra quiet is 79dB
The DSG makes it extra snappy. Short sounds are harder for the air to pick up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Silence and snappy =
-170mm x 6.01mm inner barrel or there about
-Ported Cylinder
-Sorbo on piston head
-16:1 DSG Gear (Or 18:1 DSG)
-Spring to get 1 joule (whatever that is)
-T238 V1.7 mosfet (On Aliexpress)(Allows Precocking and is cheap)
-Use precocking on about level 4-5 (This makes the piston slap at the same time the motorcycles. So short sound)
-220mm long silencer
-Make baffles for the silencer
-18tpa motor or similar (SHS High Torque 16TPA will be fine)
-Lonex Spiral Pinion and Bevel Gear set
-11.1v Lipo

I have an M4 that is 80dB and it is 1.1 joules. A Socom which is extra quiet is 79dB
The DSG makes it extra snappy. Short sounds are harder for the air to pick up.
Thank you very much indeed.
 

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Upgrade air seal (shimming, AOE)
AOE on a semi build is useless, it's just one way to suck more money out of your pocket.

Cylinder head V2 FPS
Piston head "tpae" FPS
Steel cylinder FPS
FPS compression parts are equal to SHS in quality but much easier to source in Italy, my M4s run some (piston heads and POM nozzles) and the seal is surprisingly good. FPS cylinder heads are utter shit, so are alu nozzles.
Cylinders don't fit in some boxes as they are chunky.
That piston head is useless btw, go for this one instead. All the parts that impact on each other (piston head and cylinder head for the most part) need to be polymer to dampen impacts, so do nozzles. Alu nozzles have a tendency to shread hop rubbers (especially maple leaf ones as the lips are tighter than others) and modifying them is a nightmare.

Piston 0-shock FPS
A SHS 14t piston is slightly cheaper, that one will work fine though

Bucking mapleleaf
Which one? Go for a 70 in any case, I found 50s and 60s to be a little bit too soft even at 1J

Inner barrel prometheus
No, no and no. Prommy barrels are meh, the quality has gone down the drain. Either a ZCI or keep the stock one (unless it's a G&G tinfoil barrel).

Titan gate mosfet
What firmware? If it's a Basic then wait for Perun to release their new V2 Hybrid, much better value for money (pricing is similar to a basic titan but with advanced functionalities).
If you don't need a hair trigger, then a simple Warfet will be a much better bang for your buck.

Total 330€
Including work? a bit high imo.
 

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I suggest that you ditch the Titan and get a Jefftron or BTC something or other, or the Aliexpress one

Get a barrel that's not Prometheus, Lambda, PDI, and ZCI are pretty good

And do what everybody else says as they know more about AEGs than I do.

€330 could probably be made €275 if you get some different stuff and so on, so I'd definitely change that list a bit
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@Skara and @SiliconeSword Thank you very much both.
Now I contacted a new tech (thanks to a Italian Forum), and now the list changed dramatically.
Here what he suggested:
  • PISTON HEAD VENOM
  • CILINDER HEAD X-FLOW
  • AIRBRAKE PEACTECH
  • CILINDER TO BE DECIDED, BASED ON THE VOLUME REQUIRED
  • STOCK PISTON ICS
  • SPRING 100 SMK-DMAC-FPS
  • TITAN BASIC
  • INNER BARREL PROMETHEUS EG-BC (LAPPED BY PSIONIC UPGRADES
  • PATCH PSIONIC EG-BC
TOTAL: 315 EUROS
 

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@Skara and @SiliconeSword Thank you very much both.
  • STOCK PISTON ICS
  • TITAN BASIC
Stock titan is not worth your money. It has basically frick all features. Again, I would recommend a T238 or a Perun.
The Stock ICS piston is not a full metal rack. Get an shs.
 

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Full metal racks have their advantages and disadvantages, but I say keep it

It is better than a $5-10 part breaks compared to something more expensive, and that was the point of pistons having partial or no metal racks, so it will fail first and not destroy anything else.
At 1J with no DSG, I think that it will last as long as a metal rack at high power, while being safer for your gun.

As for the MOSFET, I guess go for the Aliexpress one everybody is talking about, as it's supposed to be one of the best.
 

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You did not have DSG on the list. So if not, I would advise getting 13:1 gears and a high torque motor. I would also say to get a full metal tooth piston if you go this route as plastic teeth will not last.
The speed of your gun cycling will effect the sound a lot.

NOTE: if you go the DSG route, then you will need a spring that is about an M160 because it will only pull the piston back half the distance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You did not have DSG on the list. So if not, I would advise getting 13:1 gears and a high torque motor. I would also say to get a full metal tooth piston if you go this route as plastic teeth will not last.
The speed of your gun cycling will effect the sound a lot.

NOTE: if you go the DSG route, then you will need a spring that is about an M160 because it will only pull the piston back half the distance.
AFAIK, DSG would be good if I want a higher fire of rate, but this is not my aim. For what concerns piston, I think the stock one from ICS is already in metal teeth, that’s why he has recommended to use the stock one.
Same for gear, why would I need a 13:1 if I’m not looking for speed but just for accuracy?

Thank again for contributing to the discussion to everyone
 

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Because you mentioned you want to reduce the sound too.
Faster cycle time -> shorter sound signature -> less chances to pinpoint where the shot came from.
A DSG is ideal as it's very quiet in semi when done right.
You need the air volume to push heavy bbs though, so a dsg is not really suitable in this case.
A high speed ssg will let you have a faster cycle time and keep the air volume at a decent level.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Because you mentioned you want to reduce the sound too.
Faster cycle time -> shorter sound signature -> less chances to pinpoint where the shot came from.
A DSG is ideal as it's very quiet in semi when done right.
You need the air volume to push heavy bbs though, so a dsg is not really suitable in this case.
A high speed ssg will let you have a faster cycle time and keep the air volume at a decent level.
So I need to replace my SSG with a high speed SSG? is about only the gear which pushes the piston back or all the gears in the GB? Also, which one do you suggest?
EDIT: Also, what do you think of the new list? @Skara
 

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You need the air volume to push heavy bbs though, so a dsg is not really suitable in this case.
A high speed ssg will let you have a faster cycle time and keep the air volume at a decent level.
His max joule rate is 1 joule. So he can't use extra heavy weight. I would recommend 0.28gm and the DSG will do that easily. But either way is good.

So I need to replace my SSG with a high speed SSG? is about only the gear which pushes the piston back or all the gears in the GB? Also, which one do you suggest?
If you go with the 13:1 gears then you will need to purchase a full set. If you go for a DSG then all you need is the sector gear. Though I do highly recomend the Lonex Pinion gear.

The other cool thing about the T238 V1.7 mosfet is that it had a binary trigger. So you pull the trigger and it fires and then you release the trigger and it fires. This gives a way more controlled volume of bb's used. I got rid of my full auto and now just use binary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
His max joule rate is 1 joule. So he can't use extra heavy weight. I would recommend 0.28gm and the DSG will do that easily. But either way is good.


If you go with the 13:1 gears then you will need to purchase a full set. If you go for a DSG then all you need is the sector gear. Though I do highly recomend the Lonex Pinion gear.

The other cool thing about the T238 V1.7 mosfet is that it had a binary trigger. So you pull the trigger and it fires and then you release the trigger and it fires. This gives a way more controlled volume of bb's used. I got rid of my full auto and now just use binary.
The thing is that if I use 13:1 gears or DSG I dramatically increase my ROF, and this will fk up with the airbrake. With airbrake I can't go above 18rps, so I don't think is an option...
 

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Air brakes can be a pain in the backside with auto rifles. They are OK at low rps but yes, it can stuff your gears. You can always use binary and then you will not have full auto. I can easily shoot 16rps with binary.

The other thing that I found with airbrakes, especially in plastic aeg's, is that they change the way the sound is distributed. So instead of the slapping sound coming out of the barrel, it tends to spread the sound over the entire receiver. This is a deeper sound but still reasonably noisy especially if the receiver is plastic. If it is a metal receiver, then it can absorb the sound better.

Though to be honest, I found it more beneficial not to use an air brake when making a quiet rifle. With an air brake, you need a bigger spring since the cylinder does not have as much volume (Air brake takes up volume). A bigger spring means that gears and motor are having to work harder which will make more of a squelching sound. This squelching sound is a higher pitch and higher pitch sounds are easier to hear than lower pitch sound. So an air brake makes the piston slap a lower pitch but then you have a high pitch squelching sound coming from the motor. The Lonex pinion will help to get rid of the high pitch squelching sound coming from the gears (the noisiest gear being the pinion)
 
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