The Great Debate

3548 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by kjwsniper, Feb 15, 2008

G

Discussion Starter · Feb 11, 2008

and thus it begins...

Seems like each 1 of You 1337 ubber Snipers (

) on here has an opinion on Gas vs Spring.

Kinda funny I was talking to guy on a TX forums and I had mentioned I wanted a CA M24. Told me that Spring(er) Rifles are unreliable / too inconsistant and other such comments.

So I thought seeing as how, from what I've seen most of you regulars are from the upper mid-west ( Mich, Ind & IL ). With the weather we generally have 'round here. What would be the best Rifle type to aquire.

Here's my thing. I have been the "Sniper" / DM for most of my time Airsofting, but hadnt seen the need or desire to have a Bolt action type of Rifle, but now I'm feeling the desire to get one. So ok some basic questions. Not based on maker but type ( Gas vs Spring ).

If the Spring Rifle is upgraded to 500+fps ( 300% spring ) what kinda pull ( lbs ) are we talking to rack the round ?
( as I would have AEX do the upgrade )

And for the Gas type is there that "pull" if it's upgraded too or is the Gas type just easier.
Remember if in a hide of sorts, racking in the next round, as little movement and effort as possible seems more effective / efficient.

other then personal preference;
M24 / M700 series standard body styles
AW-338, L96, AICS ( stock (body) ) types

Just so we're all tracking.
I'm NOT looking for a list of upgrade parts
( well not yet )....

Just wondering on which gets the best range & accuarcy
As that matters most.

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1 - 19 of 19 Posts

mosin

· #2 · Feb 11, 2008

Spring Rifles:
-Less Stuff to worry about (No need for gas/leaks in the field)
-More consistant (Only one medium, and that's the spring, with a solid spring, you've got a 100% consistancy everytime)
-Quieter (No gas leaving the barrel)
-Overall better choise

Gas:
-The Closest thing to real steel when working properly (Recycling the bolt with one finger, opening the port after everyshot to load a new bb in)

Someone tell me I'm wrong.

yourgod

· #3 · Feb 11, 2008

I agree with everything mosin just stated. As for the bolt pull on the spring bolt actions, you know its going to vary by what upgrades you have. My CA M24 with a PDI 380% spring won't budge at all if you just hold the rifle by the bolt handle. I can cock my M24 many many times before I get tired and I'm 5'10" and about 145 lbs. Another thing about cocking it is in how you actually grab the bolt handle. I find it much easier to put my thumb on the left side of teh bolt and get my entire hand on the handle.

mosin

· #4 · Feb 11, 2008

That's what a lot of people do, but I'm just saying it's literally impossible to rack your bolt with one finger on a spring, and if you did, you would put a lot of stress on the cylinder, which would eventually lead to a break.

kjwsniper

· #5 · Feb 11, 2008

My comparison:

Spring:

Extremely consistent
Heavy Upgrading may wear on internals
Slower cycle time
Usually larger than Gas guns
Durable(can take abuse)

Gas:
Faster cycle time
No upgrades needed(usually)
Less consistent than spring as far as velocity on some rifles(M700 does have a velocity gauge/adjuster to combat problem)
Generally as Durable as spring guns
Semi-auto
In the end cheaper

There are different ways to boost the velocity of a gas gun. Increasing the strength of the hammer spring is one, using a more powerful gas type is another, installing special high flow valves is another, and yet another is using a tight bore barrel. And there is no pull difference.

I seem to be one of the more vocal gas proponents on this board but I tried to give a fair comparison.

I would say since you are more of a DM than a sniper, you may want to go with the gas if you find that you are closer to the action than a usual sniper.

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dutton

· #6 · Feb 11, 2008

kjwsniper said:
Less consistent than spring as far as velocity on some rifles(M700 does have a velocity gauge/adjuster to combat problem)

Hopefully it won't delete your post when I try to quote you again...

Anyways, a lot of bigger fields/event hosts, in Ohio especially will not let you use a gas gun that has a velocity adjuster that can be accessed without taking the gun apart, for obvious safety reason while out in the field.

I also know a lot of event hosts in Ohio that kind of frown upon the use of gas rifles in the spring/fall because during chrono time in the morning it's going to be cooler = less pressure in the gas = lower chrono results. So, unknowingly, by mid-day your gun could be shooting above the velocity limits for said fields. A lot of times during those seasons, if you gun chrono's within 30-40 FPS of the limit in the morning, they will ask you to use another gun for the game.

kjwsniper

· #7 · Feb 11, 2008

Good Point. I do not know what the limits there are in Ohio. However Changing gas types would fix the problem sufficiently. An in depth review of the M700 is here http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/SNIPER-KJW-M700-t26014.html

G

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 11, 2008

yeah not worried about rules & regs from States.
Most recognize a Bolt Action Sniper Rifle to shoot upwards of 500+, so...

we're not here to debate that.
Just wondering what the "LEET"

had to say

it's now more or less about
whether I want a "classic" M24 body style or the AICS style.

oh hell...
I'll just order a Real-Steal McMillan M5 / M4 series Stock for an M700 and
drop in a Tanaka. That'll settle that

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2

pearldrummer919

· #9 · Feb 11, 2008

McMillian sucks, go with H-S Precision if you want a good stock.

I say spring guns all the way, way more consistant, a little louder IMO though. My KJW M700 you can hardly hear. however, if your on a budget and want a good ranging, powerful "sniper" rifle, go with a gas one. to get a spring rifle shooting well, you need to prepair yourself to spend a little extra cash on upgrades.

echo

· #10 · Feb 12, 2008

I would take a spring rifle over a gas rifle any day. With a spring rifle, you can get your FPS within one FPS each shot, you could never get that consistency with a gas rifle.

pearldrummer919

· #11 · Feb 12, 2008

Oakey said:
you could never get that consistency with a gas rifle.

unless you had a regulator, large gas tank, remote line, and the weather was always consistant...

echo

· #12 · Feb 12, 2008

pearldrummer919 said:
Oakey said:

you could never get that consistency with a gas rifle.

Click to expand...

unless you had a regulator, large gas tank, remote line, and the weather was always consistant...

I.E. not Michigan.

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kjwsniper

· #13 · Feb 12, 2008

If you play much in the cold, ie below 45 degrees gas may not be the best way to go. Michigan gets alot colder than Jersey lol.

mosin

· #14 · Feb 12, 2008

Please allow me to address the things you saw as pro's and cons, KJWSniper , one at a time.

Spring:

Extremely consistent (This is true)
Heavy Upgrading may wear on internals (Heavy Upgrading means higher quality parts and pieces, that are made to handle any wear and adress these, a heavily upgraded rifle can last 100,000+ rounds without break)
Slower cycle time (This is debatable, pending on how quick you are, I can keep up with just about any gas rifle)
Usually larger than Gas guns (They are usually built after the same model, so that really just doesn't make sense)
Durable(can take abuse) (This is true)

In addition:
Those who have shot both style, please only submit your opinion. If you have only shot a spring rifle or gas, do not submit, as your views are second hand and hearsay.

A spring rifle can do anything a gas can, and more, a gas rifle is something you want for looks and realism, although a tweaked one can perform, they both get the job done in the end. Minut details are one sided for either one, and both sides will have positive and negative attributes. However, with being a sniper, you need a rifle that is going to be reliable under the most extreme conditions, with as little fluxuation as possible. Maintaining and holding that is what will make the difference between a lethal sniper, and an ineffective one.

If you can tweak your weapon to do that job, then you're doing alright.

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Livonia

· #15 · Feb 12, 2008

A spring rifle can be modified to shoot harder and more accurate than a gas rifle and be much more reliable. Gas easily over lubricates your bb's when they go through the hopup, which will cause for inconstancy no doubt. Ive owned a preban gas M700, Gspec, and my Maruzen L96 I have now. I sold my M700 because its much more of a hassle than spring.

I can leave my spring rifle in its case then pull it back out and it will fire in the same spot every time. Gas rifles require fine hopup tuning in the slightest changes of weather. When a gas rifle shoots on a mild day vapor pours out of the barrel leaving you with no sight on the round going downrange, basically destroying your chance for precise adjustments if missed.
Using gas in colder temp's can cause your hop bucking to virtually crumble from being so cold, also shrinks all of your O-rings. Using spring in the cold is not nearly as bad as gas in terms of accuracy, but once you use it in 10 or so degrees you will notice it shoots more inaccurate. I think what happens is the compressed air coming out of the cylinder is so cold it liquefies and gets your bucking wet, in turn freezing it over.

Racking the bolt is not hard, you just need to get used to it. There is no noticeable speed difference, and you shouldn't ever really need to expel bb's that fast anyways.

I have had a gas and spring, I prefer spring.

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kjwsniper

· #16 · Feb 14, 2008

For the record I have shot both gas and spring rilfes. Livonia, on a mild day gas does not pour out the barrel unless there's a leak or another malfunction. I can always see where my rounds go from my rifle. I don't see how the hop up would crumble, wouldn't the same thing happen in a spring rifle if the the temperature was really that low? It doesn't get that cold naturally on earth for the air to liquify on exiting the piston, much less freeze up the hop up. It has to be like negative 200 to do that or under hundreds of psi and neither conditions are met. A little chemistry can tell you that. I just think gas gives you a little bit more versatility and a little bit more protection if you're in a tight spot and need to squeeze off those rounds.

phantombushman

· #17 · Feb 14, 2008

I have had APS2 MK2 SPORTER, VSR10 G-SPEC, KJW M700P, Tanaka M40a1 and TM M14 rifles. I will say my favourite is my preban m40a1 with the 2roy VSR HOP conversions kit. It fires far more accurately than a stock tanaka rifle and the range is also far better. The kit gets the most from the tanaka series and is essential IMO if you want to be a serious gas rifle user.

However, I suggest if you are only buying 1 rifle then is should be a spring one (preferably VSR10 or BAR10 IMO). It will work all year round and be a good benchmark to get your future gas rifle benchmarked against.

Gas rifles (at 550fps) are still pretty loud.

Good Hunting

rabbit

· #18 · Feb 14, 2008

kjwsniper said:
For the record I have shot both gas and spring rilfes. Livonia, on a mild day gas does not pour out the barrel unless there's a leak or another malfunction. I can always see where my rounds go from my rifle. I don't see how the hop up would crumble, wouldn't the same thing happen in a spring rifle if the the temperature was really that low? It doesn't get that cold naturally on earth for the air to liquify on exiting the piston, much less freeze up the hop up. It has to be like negative 200 to do that or under hundreds of psi and neither conditions are met. A little chemistry can tell you that. I just think gas gives you a little bit more versatility and a little bit more protection if you're in a tight spot and need to squeeze off those rounds.

@ Your hopup statement. No, its not the same as a spring. With the gas rifle you are released a tightly compressed gas that is below zero into a barrel that focuses and concentrates it out the barrel. What does it hit before leaving the barrel? The hopup is. Hopups are made out of rubber/silicone and can crumble and wear faster if colder.

Thank you phantom on your insight. I think right now you have the most say out of most here. You have a variety of gas and spring rifles experience. Hope you stick around here and give us US-kids some good insight from some of the people that started making this sport popular and specifically, the people who got the sniper schools up and running.

kjwsniper

· #19 · Feb 15, 2008

No I understand they're not the same as spring, however from livonia's previous post that looks like what he was saying.

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

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