[ArcAngel]

I've probably mentioned this in passing before somewhere on here but I don't think I ever really got into it.

We spend hundreds of dollars on inner barrels, buckings, chambers etc etc etc to get that perfect accuracy and shot to shot consistency. Then we take all those parts what do we do. We put them into an outer barrel that either wobbles or is secured, usually at an angle, with a crummy set screw and expect out flexable plastic stocks to hold everything straight and inline. Then we expect each round to come out of that wibbly wobbly barrel in a straight line shot after shot! After a while we do one of 4 things.

1. we live with it, hey, its accurate enough i guess for most when you re used to AEGs
2. we crank down the set screw to try to take the as much of the wobble out, strip the receiver, give up and go back to number 1.
3. We give up and buy a VSR X
4. We REALLY give up and go to the dark side. SSG24 and post youtube vids about how solid it is.

Well, i'm going to give you a 5th option, and its going to cost you about 5 bucks and less than an hour. Interested yet?

So lets talk about what makes the VSR X and the SSG such accurate platforms. We know that the quality of the internals matter, but lets just say everything is equal in this department since the VSR X will use the same upgraded parts that any VSR does and the SSG parts are close to the upgrades we are all used to and have talked to death on this forum.

So what is it then? Why are those platforms so consistent compaired to your upgraded BAR 10 if all the internal you have are better than the SSG and are whats dropping into that shiney new VSR X

Brother.... Its your barrel. More precisely , the joint between your barrel and the receiver. See, any flex in this area will cause your round to go off target from shot to shot. What we often don't notice is that every time we pull that bolt, we are putting both lateral and vertical pressure on the stock which is causing a small amount of flex. Then we slam the piston forward when we fire. Both of these actions cause that joint to flex ever so slightly and that little bit of flex is enough cause our rounds to change trajectories from shot to shot, in some cases, the effect is very profound especially at the ranges we are shooting at. The VSR X fixes this by precisely machining this joint (or making it all once piece and eliminating this joint) I've never taken an SSG apart, so im not sure how solid that joint is , but i know that fiber glass stock is a dam tank and it could keep everything lined up less flex than our VSR stocks can.

Here is the fix:

Buy these

Danco Cap Thread Gasket(35544B) - Gaskets & Packing - Ace Hardware

and

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscr...ap-Thread-Gaskets-for-Burlington-Faucets-Pair

The two washers are different thickness so you can mix and match for better results.

These fiber washers are the same diameter as our cylinder guides and they are super thin.

Now the goal here is to make the reciever and the barrel act as one solid piece once you're done. You want it monolithic and solid like the VSR X is.

step 1:

Take your rifle out of the stock but don't unscrew your barrel. Leave it exactly where it is.

Step 2:

With masking tape or a white paint pen mark your barrel at the joint right where it meets the receiver.

Step 3:

Unscrew your barrel and add one or two of these washers and screw on your barrel. it may be only one or it could be 3, each setup will be different. The goal here is to use just enough washers so that when you screw your barrel on and your barrel block is in the right spot, the mark you made with the masking tape or paint mark should be just barely farther away from the receiver than it was when it was in the known correct spot. If one washer dose it you're good, if not add another, but don't over do it, you want to use the minimum number of washer that you need to just get it out a fraction of a mill more than the perfect spot.

Step 4: The important part

Now this is where the time and patience come in. Unscrew your barrel and remove one of the thinker washers you put in. You may only need one washer , if so , remove that one. Get yourself some sand paper and lay it flat on the bench. Now with you fingers flat on the washer, sand of material from the flat side of the washer, either side will do. Basicly your just making it thinner. Take a little off at a time, and put it back and screw your barrel back on TIGHT. Don't strip it , but tighten it to the point that it stops solid. The more solid the better.

Now check the allignment between the barrel block and the trigger. Keep taking the barrel off and sanding down the fiber washer and retesting. Do this until when you tighten down the barrel all the way , everything lines up perfect!

Congratulations, you now have an accurate rifle now go make a video so we can all laugh at the arrogant newbee with the SSG you just shot.... twice... in the head... and once in the nuts because he didn't call it. Aim for the left nut, you can hit it now!

A few tips to keep in mind.

1. it is better to sand to little than too much, you can always remove more

2. The washers will compress some so when you are close to perfect, back the barrel off a half turn and screw it back on several times until the washers seat right and they finish compressing

3. dont over torque your outer barrel too much. these threads are hard to strip , but it can still be done, you want to get this just right, compressing the washers like I said should keep you from accidently over torquing and giving you a nice solid dead stop.

4. take your time, dont force this. A little sanding now will buy you hits latter.

5. If you still have a set screw, ditch it, you dont need it and it just screws up threads anyway.

Ulitmately, this mod won't magicly transform your rifle into the wonder that is the CNC machined (or how ever it's made ) perfection that is the VSR X or VSR R, but it will make it so you don't NEED one to get dam near close to the same results down range and with the right upgrades, you can certainly out perform an SSG. Not that we couldn't already but every little bit helps on the field

I still want a VSR X but that's just me dreaming bigger than my wallet :hehe:

 

[Konsta]

Nice tutorial! This should be stickied

 

[Onyx-SF]

You forgot to mention the VSR-R as another option ..
Otherwise a very nice guide.. great way to get more consistency for minimal buck, thanks

 

[Jeppe]

Without having tried it, that's a really good trick. It's (somewhat) the same approach as installing an M4 outer barrel correctly. It must be tight and aligned.

 

[1tonne]

Brother.... Its your barrel. More precisely , the joint between your barrel and the receiver. See, any flex in this area will cause your round to go off target from shot to shot. What we often don't notice is that every time we pull that bolt, we are putting both lateral and vertical pressure on the stock which is causing a small amount of flex. Then we slam the piston forward when we fire. Both of these actions cause that joint to flex ever so slightly and that little bit of flex is enough cause our rounds to change trajectories from shot to shot, in some cases, the effect is very profound especially at the ranges we are shooting at. The VSR X fixes this by precisely machining this joint (or making it all once piece and eliminating this joint) I've never taken an SSG apart, so im not sure how solid that joint is , but i know that fiber glass stock is a dam tank and it could keep everything lined up without any flex at all.

Good guide and I like the idea. I remade my cylinder guide rings to the correct thickness so that when I screw the outer barrel onto the receiver, it is screwed to the perfect position for fitting into the stock.
In saying this, I don't think that the one piece barrel and receiver set make any difference to accuracy. I have made many VSR's for other people and I have never seen a difference in accuracy between a rifle that has a solid joint and one that does not. The only advantage is that once you have screwed the outer barrel in, then you know the outer barrel is in the correct position and so therefore you cannot screw it in to far.
The stock may flex a little but it would be so minimal that we would never notice the difference. Also, and most importantly, the hopup and inner barrel which are the parts that create accuracy are placed after the receiver. So the solid once piece receiver and barrel set should not make a difference. It is nice to be able to screw the outer barrel in and know you have it in the correct position to fit into your stock.
If people believe that the position of the receiver makes a difference to accuracy, then they also need to take into account that the cylinder has wobble in it. So they either need to remake the guide rings or alter them so that there is no wobble. As I said, I remade my guide rings and now there is no wobble in them. I did this not for accuracy, but to make the bolt pull feel better.

One last thing that is off topic. The original post was a good post, but the following posts were way off topic and so now people will have to read through these waste of time posts to get to any additional information that may have been added to this thread. So, in the interests of keeping this a good thread, I would ask that if your post was about how you type, then please delete it.
The original post was great. Lets keep this thread interesting.

 

[SiN]

So lets talk about what makes the VSR X and the SSG such accurate platforms

I'm not sure why you believe the VSR-X and SSG are even remotely comparable, they're not. There are plenty of VSR's that can out perform the SSG in every way so using it as a standard doesn't really work.

the SSG parts are close to the upgrades we are all used to

What??

I've never taken an SSG apart, so im not sure how solid that joint is , but i know that fiber glass stock is a dam tank and it could keep everything lined up without any flex at all.

I've held and shot the SSG multiple times and in my experience the stock is bulky and a bit uncomfortable but otherwise nothing special. It's definitely not a "Tank" and while there might be less flex than a stock VSR/BAR10, there is still flex.

Now the goal here is to make the reciever and the barrel act as one solid piece once you're done. You want it monolithic and solid like the VSR X is

This is never going to happen unless you weld the metal together and, even then, I'm sure it would have it's flaws compared to the VSR-X. To quote the man himself: "It helps but it's like saying your Honda Civic can outhandle a Ferrari 458 if you put polyurethane bushings in the control arms."

Ulitmately, this mod won't magicly transform your rifle into the wonder that is the CNC machined perfection that is the VSR X, but it will make it so you don't NEED one to get dam near close to the same results down range and with the right upgrades, you can certainly out perform an SSG

The VSR-X is not CNC machined, you will not get "dam near close to the same results down range" just because you do this mod, and you also don't need this mod to outperform an SSG.

Now, I don't mean to sound like an a$$ with my responses, I actually think this is a really cool idea that should be stickied and could definitely help out the community but I would rather you not delude yourself (or anyone else for that matter) into thinking this mod is in anyway comparable to a real VSR-X.

 

[1tonne]

Now, I don't mean to sound like an a$$ with my responses, I actually think this is a really cool idea that should be stickied and could definitely help out the community but I would rather you not delude yourself (or anyone else for that matter) into thinking this mod is in anyway comparable to a real VSR-X.

Why is the 1 piece VSR-X better than a normal VSR10. I don't see any advantage apart from the outer barrel being made of thicker metal (Which make it heavy). If there is a difference, it would be so minimal that people probably cannot measure it. (Sorry Reliku)
Of cause it is cool to have a custom made part though.

 

[Konsta]

Why is the 1 piece VSR-X better than a normal VSR10. I don't see any advantage apart from the outer barrel being made of thicker metal (Which make it heavy). If there is a difference, it would be so minimal that people probably cannot measure it. (Sorry Reliku)
Of cause it is cool to have a custom made part though.

I agree with you since the difference would be so minimal that you can't really see the difference. At least with my JG BAR-10 i can't really see or feel any wobble on the receiver or the barrel. Maybe thats just not a lemon but i don't think spending ridiculous amount of money on just a minimal difference is necessary

 

[1tonne]

I agree with you since the difference would be so minimal that you can't really see the difference. At least with my JG BAR-10 i can't really see or feel any wobble on the receiver or the barrel. Maybe thats just not a lemon but i don't think spending ridiculous amount of money on just a minimal difference is necessary

I agree. I have never had a JG Bar10 have wobble between the receiver and outer barrel once it is screwed to the stock.

 

[Konsta]

I agree. I have never had a JG Bar10 have wobble between the receiver and outer barrel once it is screwed to the stock.

Yeah but the older bar-10 models had too small sized guide rings (OD) so they wobbled in the receiver causing the cylinder hit the receiver walls and a wobbly bolt pull. I bought a new BAR-10 this year and it doesnt seem to have the same problem so i think their QC has got better in some ways

 

[Plazmaburn]

Keep the posts on topic, I just stickied this. Otherwise I am deleting posts to keep it nice.

=======
While I could comment on the current discussion, I won't as it is not on topic of the mod, even though its fairly common knowledge among all you old timers that I own a VSR-X and 2 normal VSRs, if you all wish to know my thoughts on the matter, make a new thread and I will post then.

=========
The mod is pretty nifty and certainly helps to an extent. I have been using this mod for 10 months in one of my builds. Works well, though I am using something different though.

 

[ArcAngel]

Thanks Plazma

So here's the thing. Not all VSR style stocks are made equal. Some manufactures use more flexable plastic than others. Even real steal fiber stocks flex somewhat, which is one of the reasons you free float barrels even in bedded stocks (the other has to do with barrel harmonics) . This is particularly true when shooting supported. ANY flex will throw a shot off at long range and this helps to reduce the affect the shooter has on that factor

Now no one "has" do to this mod but it helps eliminate one more weak point in the VSR system, aids in accuracy when supported and for most will reduce flyers more than without it and i'm going to guess that It will benefit some. I know for me, I've been doing this for 5 years now. I was experimenting with barrels the other day without this mod to make swapping them a bit simpler while I tested a new inner barrel and couldn't beleave the difference it made when the barrel was not on there securely which is why I finally decided to post this write up.

Consider this something like a "free float" barrel mod or a "rigidity" mod. The original Maruzen L96 is built like this so the barrel and receiver mate perfectly and It's more accurate than the UTGs. Thats why you always see the UTGs with with the bracket mod that goes over the barrel and into the stock in an attempt to stabilise it. It's also why you see some people use electrical tape on their barrels and wrap it around the stock, but stocks aren't compleately rigid.

I used the VSR X and the SSG as standards because they are more rigid than our VSRs are and the SSG is more accessable to people in general. And sure, I say the SSG parts are "close" to the parts we use, there is still a gap and I know that but we have already had that conversation more than once and I just want to keep that out of this thread. And the VSR R is amazing too, I didn't forget about it, but one amazing VSR example is good enough for this thread.

As far as how the VSR X is made? Don't care, the dam things are nice and I want one ( or a VSR R) >

Bottom line:
This is a cheep mod and helps correct a weak point in the VSR design and is just one more trick in our bag for those who may need it or for those looking the squeese just a bit more performance out our rifles without breaking the bank. If you do the mod and you don't get the same results, you will STILL love the fact that you will never have guess how many turns to unscrew your barrel again to get it to seat in the stock right :yup:

 

[shr3dbeard]

im intrigued, but im a little unsure on some of the details


any chance of getting pics added for further explanation?

 

[Reliku]

Great mod, I did something like this before I built my VSR-R. This definitely helps eliminating some of the wobble. On some stock uppers it's worse than others but this should get rid of the worst if it's really bad. There are more flaws in the two-piece setup, I don't think you can really fix all of them, even if you weld the barrel and receiver together (which is tricky because of the materials). But this mod definitely helps

 

[1tonne]

Great mod, I did something like this before I built my VSR-R. This definitely helps eliminating some of the wobble. On some stock uppers it's worse than others but this should get rid of the worst if it's really bad. There are more flaws in the two-piece setup, I don't think you can really fix all of them, even if you weld the barrel and receiver together (which is tricky because of the materials). But this mod definitely helps

What are the flaws of the 2 piece model compared to the 1 piece receiver barrel set?

 

[Reliku]

Alignment of the scope/bore. This just happens when you screw two parts together, because of play in the diameters and thread slop on the threads. Additionally, less precise spacing between the bolt handle slot and chamber leads to less consistent nozzle placement and possibly airseal (but usually airseal is unaffected unless you have a very poor setup )

The two-piece setup uses the stock to keep the bore and scope from rotating against one another. That's obviously a bad idea unless you have a very sturdy stock.

Furthermore, a one-piece setup is better at absorbing vibrations, because it's a solid chunk of metal. Not really a flaw per se on the two piece, but it does make a difference.

There are a few more advantages to running a one-piece setup (regarding durability, bolt cycling, weight, that sort of stuff), but these are the biggest reasons to opt for a one-piece rather than two-piece setup.

That being said, this is really "last few %" stuff. These things only matter if you're trying to squeeze the last few % of performance out of the system. And some things can be fixed by doing some DIY mods. You don't need a one-piece upper unless you have already upgraded everything else, and even then you still don't need it to build a decent sniper rifle. My VSR was doing fine and outranging just about everything on the field before I built the VSR-R. After I built the VSR-R that didn't change, it just got a little more accurate.

How big this difference is, I don't know. I've made over 80 VSR-R's by now. Some people have come back to me and claimed an effective range increase of as much as 20 yards. Now you and I both know that to be a bogus claim, there is no way the upper has this much influence unless his stock assembly didn't have threads connecting the receiver and barrel or something.

But out of all the uppers I've made, I have yet to see a customer who's installed it in their setup and didn't observe an accuracy increase. Now, of course, this could be the placebo effect doing its job, but if every single one of them out of 80 is so lyric about the one-piece upper, you can't really deny it.

How big the difference is really depends on how sturdy the two-piece assembly you're coming from was though, that's for certain :yup:

 

[Lollingsgrad]

How precise are those inner diameters? I notice the first washer you link is 13/16" and the other is 31/32" so it looks like you've got a lot of wiggle room. The reason I ask is I can't seem to find the right Imperial sizes in the UK. I have found an o-ring set that has a 20mm (~25/32") and 22mm (~28/32") inner diameter which are both 2mm thick (~3/32"). Think o-rings about this big would be worth a try?

 

[AccurateDMD]

Curious if anyone has a source on some of these gaskets similar to the ones linked in the OP post. The links from the initial post are either dead or the product is not available.

I know there are some available from 3D print online stores but I'd prefer to just find and sand some cheap gaskets down from Lowes/Home Depot/etc online if possible.

Any helps appreciated.

 

[KillerDad]

Curious if anyone has a source on some of these gaskets similar to the ones linked in the OP post. The links from the initial post are either dead or the product is not available.

I know there are some available from 3D print online stores but I'd prefer to just find and sand some cheap gaskets down from Lowes/Home Depot/etc online if possible.

Any helps appreciated.

both of the links worked for me i just tried them.

 

[KillerDad]

How precise are those inner diameters? I notice the first washer you link is 13/16" and the other is 31/32" so it looks like you've got a lot of wiggle room. The reason I ask is I can't seem to find the right Imperial sizes in the UK. I have found an o-ring set that has a 20mm (~25/32") and 22mm (~28/32") inner diameter which are both 2mm thick (~3/32"). Think o-rings about this big would be worth a try?

the diameter is irrelevant for the purpose of the gasket. It only needs to have an inner diameter that fits your cylinder and a outside diameter that fits into the receiver. A little bigger or smaller than the ops doesn't matter as long as it fits the two things i mentioned. I wouldn't use o rings though because of the flex and that would diminish the purpose