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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys, BASR noob here (intro post already made).

I've got a pre-owned TM L96 AWS with the following parts fitted :

Laylax L96 AWS Zero Trigger & matching Piston
PDI Raven Cylinder & matching Cylinder Head
Laylax 7mm Spring Guide
PDI 250% Spring (cut by the looks of it)
PDI 'W' Hop Rubber with standard TM hop nub
Tanio Koba Twist 500mm barrel
King Arms M3 3.5-10x40 Scope
Harris style Bi-pod
TM G-Spec Suppressor Adaptor and unknown metal Suppressor

I've had trouble with it since I got it yesterday :

The bolt was a complete b*stard to pull back, requiring a major effort and a sharp pull to get the sear to engage.
Even then, most of the time, the sear fails to engage, requiring another attempt at pulling back the bolt, thus causing misfeeds from numerous BB's in the chamber.
My biggest worry though is, a lot of the time, the bolt gets stuck in the fully-back position and I'm unable to push it forward, without first pulling the trigger, causing the bolt to slam forwards.

Can I have your thoughts on this problem?
(Personally, I suspect that replacing the existing incorrect spring and Laylax 7mm spring guide with the specific TM L96 AWS PDI 130 spring and matching PDI 9mm spring guide might solve the issue, but I'm really not sure?)

Problem - PDI sells two different 9mm varients, listed on their L96 AWS page - http://www.x-fire.org/top/tm_l96.html
One is the VC version (which I've read is shorter for use in conjunction with the VC cylinder set) and the other is the HD version.

Main Question - Which 9mm spring guide should I buy for use with the Raven cylinder? VC or HD and why? :shrug:

Are the PDI Power Adjuster rings worth using?

Do I need to lube the Raven cylinder so that it glides any easier? If, so what do I use? I have Lithium CV grease and also Silicon spray handy.

As if all that wasn't bad enough, when I tried to chrono the rifle this morning, the 3rd shot jammed, with the original plastic TM feed ramp/fin breaking in 2 places. (I've ordered a replacement Aluminium one from Hong Kong for $30).

Only managed one proper chrono reading with 0.20g's and hop-off at 428FPS.

Oh and one of the screws holding the top rail in place has stripped and requires drilling, so I can't open up the internals at the moment. >:

I don't have the original manual, so if anyone else has the manual, can they have a look at it and tell me what size the two top rail screws are listed as, ie. M4x8 etc.
Also, the tiny spring that sits behind the bolt handle, so that it doesn't swivel all the way around and up to the left is all bent and broken on mine. The bolt is currently able to circle up way too high to the left. I still have the small metal piece that fits on to the spring, but I need to know the size of spring to try and replace the broken one with to fix this problem......does the manual list the spring size at all?
Thanks.
(Even better, if somone could take a detailed photo of the breakdown diagram and post it up for me to copy.)

All in all, I was really excited to get my new toy (bought via a forum), but I'm really disappointed with the above issues. The seller is being helpful and has agreed to buy me a new PDI 130 spring.

Ideally, I need the gun to shoot 450 FPS for my favoured site.

Cheers.

Ryan
 

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Right off the top of my head, you may need to tighten the sear recoil spring inside the trigger box, that should help the sear catch better. Be sure to use the "over hand" method of pulling the bolt back with the butt of the gun to your shoulder. This puts less tension in the handle and makes it easier to pull. That alone should keep it from double feeding (unless theres a magazine issue or the piece inside the gun that holds the bbs in place has a problem)
Id deff use the proper spring in the gun aswell. I can look up some more info when im at a computer.
Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Any description or pics of to how to tighten the sear recoil spring?

Will a VSR spring guide fit the L96 AWS?

If so, should I get the shorter VC or HD version?
 

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The difference in the spring guides is the length. An HD spring guide is longer than the VC.

I would go with specific TM L96 springs just to make sure that nothing is going to bind or cause problems.

As for the trigger mech, get some pics of it so we can take a look at the sear. You may have some wear on the sears that is causing the problem. Also look at the way the trigger is attached to the rifle. You may have a screw loose or missing, thus causing the problem.
 

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Woogie is right, stick to TM L96 parts to make sure it will fit and start with the basics. Make sure the trigger box is screwed in completely, check for any loose areas and see if they cant be tightened.

If that dosent help then your going to want to look at your trigger box. Check and see if the sear is worn down.
If that is the case, then you need to replace it, if not test the sear by pushing foward with steady pressure then pull the trigger, the sear will "fall". When you let go it should pop back up or atleast try too. If it stays in the downward postion your going to want to tighten the spring that helps it recoil.
There is only two springs inside the trigger box, one attached to the trigger mechanism itself and the other to the bottom of a bar piece that connects to the sear to hold it in the upright position. Obviously you have to tighten the one indirectly attached to the sear. Your just going to pull the spring down and attach it at a higher point. Just tighten it a few coils at a time until it feels better. Its really easy despite the sounds of it, the harder part is closing the trigger box. Go slow and take your time. All the z-trig sets will need that done to em at some point, the springs just get streched out a bit. And since you bought the gun used, its not a bad idea to do it if its your problem or not.

Like I mentioned before, use the "over-hand" bolt pull method. Pull the bolt back firmly and quickly enough to make sure the sear will catch, but not too hard to hurt your gun. On the otherside of that if you dont put some force behind it you will just miss the sear and have to try again leading to it double feeding.

Grease? I reccomend, white litium grease, I use it on my guns and it works wonders.

That tiny spring your talking about, im not sure on the exact size. But try out a spring from a pen, that might work.

I hope something in here can help you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thanks for the tips guys. Food for thought.
I'd still really appreciate if somebody who has the owner's manual could somehow get me a copy of the exploded parts diagram. Anybody?

I've received the correct PDI 130 spring for the L96 AWS (thought I'd start low and go from there to see if the bolt pull gets any better) and have the correct PDI 9mm Spring Guide and Creation Aluminium Part#40 on route from Airsoft Atlanta and Tokyo-Model-Company, respectively. It may take a few weeks for the parts to arrive though.

I've drilled out the stripped screw to take a closer look at how the internals were functioning.....incorrectly it would seem.

I believe that the problem is that the cut APS2 11mm internal diameter spring, combined with the far too small 7mm diameter Laylax spring guide, is causing the Zero Trigger's spring guide stopper problems in catching the nipple on the back of the guide. I base this on from what I've seen and on the following photos.

Here's 2 pics of the (I believe) 2nd sear, with a slight curve worn into it, as shown :





This has badly damaged the spring guide stopper, causing the nipple on the back of the spring guide to fail to catch properly, riding upwards and grinding a chunk out of the top part.





So what I've done is take a file and smooth off the top of the stopper and then take a drill to the hole in the stopper to make it bigger.

For some reason the nipple on the back of the Laylax spring guide is far too big for the hole on the Laylax Zero trigger's stopper. It hardly captures the nipple at all and it's no surprise that the nipple has been riding up and damaging the stopper. I compared the zero stopper to the original TM stopper and the TM had a much better sized hole and made for a much better fit. I can't understand how Laylax could get something like this so clearly wrong.

Here's a comparison pic after I'd drilled. I couldn't drill too much due to the damage already caused :



Here's another comparison pic of how different the zero trigger and original TM stoppers are for those who don't know (they're different at the bottom and the shaping at the top rear) :



Another comparison pic of the two stoppers in their respective trigger boxes :



Here's the tiny spring for the bolt that I was asking about replacing. Notice the damage to the metal work due to the spring having been mangled and sticking out between the two parts :





The visual differences between the Zero Trigger (far side) and the standard TM trigger boxes :



Here's a pic of the differences between the springs that I now have. From left to right, new PDI 130 spring (noticeably longer than original), PDI APS2 250% cut spring (shorter than original) and finally the original, thinner diameter spring.



Ryan
 

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Give me your addy and a few bucks and a manual is yours.

I still have the original manual from when I had mine, and it is still in the plastic! I can't remember who bought my L96, but I guess I forgot the owner manual.

Hit me up in PM and I can get it out to you if you want.
 

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You may still get issues with the piston sear, thats fairly worn.
Ive never seen a zero trigger with that sort of wear either.My maruzen l96 had one and even after about 4 years running a cut sp170(515fps) there was minimal wear compared to that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Basically, Fire-Support have f*cked up royally on this build and I'm really not impressed with their bodge-job.

I'm equally unimpressed with the Zero Trigger's durability. What exactly in this product is justifably worth paying £200 for? Total rip-off for what it is and how easily it has been damaged. Not to mention the lack of support in replacing the damaged parts.

At least PDI (also ridiculously expensive) offer the ability to buy individual parts for their V Trigger.

Anyway, I still have high hopes for this rifle once the new parts arrive. Fingers crossed it's soon able to be skirmished.

Ryan
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
#UPDATE#

The new parts all arrived :

PDI 130 Spring
PDI 9mm HD Spring Guide
Creation Aluminium Feeding Fin

All were installed and the bolt pull was MUCH better than the previous spring, HOWEVER the sear just will not catch the piston, no matter how I cock the bolt back. :doh:
I tried some trouble-shooting and re-installed the original spring, spring guide and piston with both the original trigger and the Z-Tigger.........all worked fine together.

I then kept the original spring and spring guide but used the Laylax Piston that came with the Z-Trigger and it worked fine........with both trigger units.

I then installed the PDI spring and spring guide with the Laylax piston and the sear still would not catch the piston.

So I've come to the conclusion that because the PDI spring is so much longer than the original spring, the Laylax piston must be the wrong length for the PDI spring (internal diameter is correct however), so I've ordered a new PDI HD Piston from X-fire, to match the 9mm HD spring guide.

If that doesn't get the rifle working properly, I'm at a total loss as to what the issue would be.

Basically, I'm hoping that having all PDI parts (bar the Z-trigger) will be the fix. I very much hate Fire-Support right now for getting the original build so wrong by mixing and matching and bodging parts.

The saga continues.....


P.S. Woogie, I replied to your PM with my address, but haven't heard back from you. Did you receive my PM? I'm going on holiday/vacation for 2 weeks (thank Christ) on Sep 3rd so won't be on here over that period.

Ryan
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
An update for anyone that's interested :

The PDI HD piston arrived and solved the problem. The rifle is now fully working and the bolt-pull is nice and easy. It hits out to 60m with 0.3g BB's, but is only producing 330 FPS.

A 6.01mm TBB and the PDI 140 rated spring would increase the FPS, but there is most likely an air-leak somewhere and I've decided to sell the rifle on to someone new, as I was kidding myself that sniping was for me. I'm having more fun being sneaky and mobile with my MK23 SOCOM pistol, which shoots just as far and easily gives me much more amusement.

For anyone doing an L96 AWS build, please DO NOT MIX AND MATCH PDI AND LAYLAX PARTS! It only leads to problems.......the exception being that the Laylax Z-Trigger works fine with the PDI cylinder parts (as long as they are designed for use with the original TM trigger and not the PDI V-Trigger).

My parts list currently looks like this :

Laylax L96 AWS Zero Trigger
PDI Raven Cylinder & matching Cylinder Head
PDI 130 Spring (I'd upgrade to the 140 spring)
PDI 9mm HD Spring Guide (9mm essential for use with PDI L96 AWS springs)
PDI HD Piston (essential for use with PDI L96 AWS springs)
PDI 'W' VSR Hop Rubber with standard TM hop nub (fits L96 AWS)
Creation Part #40, Aluminium Feeding Fin ( essential replacement for common broken TM plastic original)
Tanio Koba Twist 500mm barrel (I'd change for PDI 6.01mm barrel)
King Arms M3 3.5-10x40 Scope
Harris style Bi-pod
TM G-Spec Suppressor Adaptor and unknown metal Suppressor

Thanks for your help guys.

Ryan
 
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