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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was under the impression that Laylax VSR spring was rated using SP system, meaning for .25 weight bbs.
For some reason some other resources claims it to be a M system, so for .20 bbs.
For context, I’m trying to hit 2.7 to 2.9 joules, I believe a Laylax PSS10 SP150 should put me right in that zone – am I wrong to believe this? I doubt their quality control is so bad whereby the numbers are so off that people are getting confused if they are using M or SP systems – or am I wrong about this?
 

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They are an SP system. The M170 gets about 2.95 joules. If you need to bring it down a little just wrap some solder around the piston to add weight. Hold the solder on with a layer of electrical tape. This mod normally lasts a very long time.
Once the spring has worn in, you can then remove the weight to increase the energy again. So you in effect, get twice the life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@1tonne

Sounds like a good plan...but I'm confused based on your statement
Laylax isn't on a M system system as you stated, while true a M170 would be around 2.95J, the SP170 would yield around 3.55J.
Are you saying the M170 equivalent? so a SP150?
 

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True. They may say SP but they are more an M. Anyway, the sp170 produces about 2.95 joules. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just a sidenote if anyone comes across this tread in the future
The Laylax VSR 10 Springs are indeed full SP systems
I installed a SP170 and it yielded (average across 10 shots each) 3.5j for .20, 3.6j for .25, 3.75j for .28, 3.9j for .32, and 4.1j for .45
If anyone advertise or misprint it as M system, it's clearly incorrect
 

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Are you sure it was the SP170 and not the SP190? That is normally the joule rates for an SP190. (Maybe they mixed up the springs)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
@1tonne

I brought a Laylax SP190 as well (in case the SP170 was too weak), I'll pull the SP170 out tomorrow and compare them outside the cylinder side by side. I had a heck of a time trying to get the SP170 in. I'm not sure I could install the SP190 to test it

As far as I can tell, these are SP170 numbers... Unless you're saying compared to your previous experience with their SP190 line?

SP190 for example would put me at 4.5j on .25, well above the 3.6j I got
 

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Easiest thing to do would be cut the sp190 down. Then you'll also have a spring that's easier to install since it's shorter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@sodium

I’ve read 1tonne’s guide on spring cutting… unfortunately I don’t have access to a belt sander, nor do I trust myself with a blow torch or open flame device.
If I DID know how to properly cut a spring, it would be a boon. I’ve spent over 150 dollars on springs between my AEGs, AEPs, and Sniper rifle trying to get the right joule rating for various fields limits. Right now I’m sitting on over 10 ‘failed’ springs.
 

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If you have that many springs, I would recommend that you try cutting the one that you like the least, then if you did a good enough job I'd do whichever one you want to cut.
I would suggest a dremel or something similar for cutting a spring and smoothing it, and a torch/gas stove are actually not too dangerous in comparison to tons of other things.

Hope you don't waste even more money on springs lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@siliconesword
I just ordered 50 dollars worth of spring this evening after my Laylax SP170 test.
You do make a good point about practicing on springs seeing I have so many over powered ones, however I don’t have a metric on what is a “good job”, so I wouldn’t know if I screwed something up. While it sounds silly …pretty much anything that can go wrong has been going wrong. Every time I fix or upgrade something, something else breaks.

I’m starting to get to a point where everytime I open the gearbox, something breaks. Today my maxx model hopup chamber tracer wire snapped… resulting in me having to research schottky diode as a means to replace the broken compontent. On top of that, I now also have a seized locking pin on the AEG that I need to dremel out…

I just want to get at a point where I tune my guns to field limits and not have to open them again. I’ve easily spent 5 times the amount of time teching than I have been playing airsoft

ANNNNDDDddd....rant over :)
 

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Understandable, but cutting a spring is the easiest thing you can do, and a short spring is sooo useful for teching. Lets you not have to struggle and break stuff every time you have to reassemble your cylinder.

Cutting a spring is also stupid easy. You just clip like 2 coils off, hold like 1 coil over a lighter (I use a zippo), wait till it glows red, then press it down on something hard like a rock or granit counter. Then you just sand it with a dremel so it's flat like the other side. I've done it countless times. It's almost hard to mess up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I pulled the Laylax SP170 spring out to compare it to the Laylax SP190, it clearly is a different spring and I'm confident the Laylax SP170 is meant to be on a SP170 system. The SP190 is longer by about an itch with slightly thicker wires. Additionally I test compressed the two springs and SP190 is easily stiffer. So much so I don't think I can insert it into the MLC 388 because of how the quick release cylinder system is setup.

I'm honestly baffled why the SP190 exist...what sort of application are their?

@sodium

I guess if this next wave of springs doesn't work out, I might attempt it. While I've learned alot with all this teching... I just rather not have to mess around so much with the guns anymore - and just play

@1tonne

I know you usually suggest adding solder on the piston to lower fps, approx how many coils around the piston are we talking about?
 

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@1tonne

I know you usually suggest adding solder on the piston to lower fps, approx how many coils around the piston are we talking about?
Yip. That is what I was going to suggest. Just wrap as much solder around the piston as possible. Then hold it on with a layer of electrical tape. The eventually when the spring has worn in you can remove some solder and your fps should go back up again.
I am perplexed though how you got such high energy rates with the Laylax SP170.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@1tonne

I already ordered a Laylax SP150, I figured even that one might be .1 or .2 joules over my field limit. Can a SP170 spring (regardless of brand) be dropped 1.2 joules via your weighted piston trick? I feel like I'm also needlessly putting extra wear on my system with such a hard spring

As far the joule output, the Laylax SP170 is inline with what various SP system 170 springs should yield. Perhaps the Laylax SP170 you had experiences with in the past were weaker for some reason?
 

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I think you are focusing too much on springs for adjusting your fps. Change others things like piston weight, barrel lengths and possibly air brake lengths. I used to ALWAYS try and tune my sniper rifles to the field limits. BUT recently I’ve just ran it under the limits by like 50fps or so because I was tired of possibly having to adjust it at the field if it was like 1 or 2 fps over. I understand limits are limits but one time they made my friend turn down is m4 that was HALF a round per second over. After running lower outputs, I actually noticed some of my rifles shot a LOT better. The trajectory is beautiful and accuracy improved as well. Depends on what rifle I’m using. Sometimes I think higher velocities impact accuracy and consistency in a negative way. But it all depends on ALL of the variables like hopup components, barrel bores and lengths, temperature,etc. Idk. Plastic bbs man. Mind of their own.
 

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I feel like I'm also needlessly putting extra wear on my system with such a hard spring
If you have an Action Army or a Laylax trigger, you will not wear it out. They last forever. The only part that it will be putting extra stress on is the cylinder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
@blind sniper

I’m not trying to get it flushed up to the limit. Currently I’m sitting on 2.3J (Maple Leaf M145), my field limit is 2.9J. I’m trying to have it around 2.7J such that if their chrono was off, I need not worry. At 2.3J I’m having trouble fully hopping .45bbs. I’ve been dropping to .32bbs because of it.

I do have an Maple Leaf MR hop bucking that I have yet to install, but I’m splitting my time (and patience) on 5 different guns right now.

Outside of the Sniper rifle issue, I’m trying also trying to correct my AEG spring issues too (and other electronic problems). My AEGs has a 380mm and 205mm barrel. Because of this there is a .4j different between them (the only other internal difference is cylinder port length – all other upgraded parts are the same).

I wish there was a way I can have a true quick change spring system on a G&P without giving up the AEG receivers I have now (petty I know – but I do like how they look), currently it takes me 45 minutes per spring change.

@1tonnes

Yes, I was mostly concerned about the cylinder head, the thread looks nice, but if you saw how stiff the SP190 was…I still wouldn’t trust it.

At this point I’d like to get to a place where everything was tuned to a place where I don’t have to strip them again and focus on playing
 

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Ah gotcha! Good luck on all your projects! I have a few underway as well. Can never focus on just one!!

*edit* what’s the current setup in it now? You should be able to lift .48s for decent range event at 2.3j. Mr hop has mixed reviews but it’s in one of my guns with a panthera nub and it works great!
 
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