[bobgengeskahn]

Why has airsoft stuck to the 6/8mm (hardley 8mm anymore) platforms? Is it to preserve safe MEDs? Is it because if we went bigger there would be too much mass? Or is it just because the industry has decided that for us?

I have been looking into custom BB designs for a project and designing custom 6mm BBs is just damn small. Then I contemplated going to 8mm. Most recently I have been thinking about going as large as ~10mm (0.40cal. to be exact). From varous topics I have read I can see a few problems/hesitations for going so large, the main concern most likely being that increased mass = increased MED/more safety concerns.

However, I would pose that for a sniper role, since our MED is longer anyway; a slightly larger round at the heavier range of existing BBs (0.4 - 0.5) would be able to be fired at a lower FPS with greater stability resulting in better range and increased accuracy. Wheter it would be custom 8mm rounds or going as large as what I am thinking I don't know, but its just a thought.

 

[inthetallgrass]

It would require a lot more force to propel it. It would then have to go over the joule limits set by fields.

 

[becklr1]

A heavier round fired slower would be great but you would be arc-ing it to the target.

I think 6 is too small. The only reason I did not go to 8 is because the 8's are not a precise as the 6's and I did not want to make rounds. Of course if you are firing slower and heavier the exact roundness may not be a question. You mat not even have to spin it or not very hard at least.

I know some companies have made 8mm sniper rifles that never caught on. I suspect inertia of how things work today is why is all. It is not broken, people are not asking for a change so there is no movement to change it. Just a guess.

I definitely think the idea has merit. For a project especially!

I like the 6mm paintball idea. Never looked into it too hard but it solves the problem of people not acknowledging they are hit.

I also like the "nerf" dart idea. Why not shoot a high density foam dart with a soft tip. 700 fps with that won't hurt but you'll feel it and you can make them fly straight. Like a blow gun. Accurate and long range. Just not round.

 

[awagg]

Paintballs that small are hard though. The walls have to be thick so they don't prematurely break, but they might not break if they are too thick. Also, it's hard to machine them precisely.

I think the higher caliber issue has merit, but the speeds can be unsafe. A good idea would be to have the bb's fracture when hitting a target, so they wouldn't penetrate. Hmmm... Then you could fill them with paint to make them marking, and easy to ID your hits. Oh, wait, this is called paint ball.

A smaller bb could also have merit. It would slice through the air better, but be harder to machine. Doesn't seem like this is the way to go, because it would also penetrate better.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

It would require a lot more force to propel it. It would then have to go over the joule limits set by fields.

True. However I have seen some paintball companies that have designed very accurate paintballs that are hitting with amazing accuracy at 300 feet with only ~270fps. So it wouldn't be a huge stretch that our rounds only slightly smaller (than theirs, larger than standard) and not filled with paint would be lighter and able to achieve similar results while still being able to remain within the joule limit, and definitely feasible in other areas where the limits are higher.

As far as the accuracy of 8mm rounds, I don't see why they would be any less accurate, other factors ignored (Manufacturing error, lack of supply etc.); they would only be limited by the fact that they are still just spheres.

I have temporarially decided to put most of my project on hold until I can build a rig to test some of the BB and barrel ideas that have been floating around recently.

 

[inthetallgrass]

Yeah maybe but paintball guns have an energy of 11 joules. Somehow I don't think anything near that would be allowed to be used in many places.

 

[inthetallgrass]

A heavier round fired slower would be great but you would be arc-ing it to the target.

I think 6 is too small. The only reason I did not go to 8 is because the 8's are not a precise as the 6's and I did not want to make rounds. Of course if you are firing slower and heavier the exact roundness may not be a question. You mat not even have to spin it or not very hard at least.

I know some companies have made 8mm sniper rifles that never caught on. I suspect inertia of how things work today is why is all. It is not broken, people are not asking for a change so there is no movement to change it. Just a guess.

I definitely think the idea has merit. For a project especially!

I like the 6mm paintball idea. Never looked into it too hard but it solves the problem of people not acknowledging they are hit.

I also like the "nerf" dart idea. Why not shoot a high density foam dart with a soft tip. 700 fps with that won't hurt but you'll feel it and you can make them fly straight. Like a blow gun. Accurate and long range. Just not round.

You know madbull make some 8mm BB's don't ya. Also I'd give you the site that sells like 20 different types of 8mm bb all in stock. BUT I can't remember it, sorry.

 

[awagg]

Wow, I'm surprised at those claims. Are those tested or manufacturers claims?

Also, I'm sure they would be just as accurate as 6mm bb's, but just might be a little more effected by the wind. They should have a higher joule limit, because they spread the force over a larger area.

 

[sniperninja]

I'm sure that a few of you have seen the bb shape vs pellet shape thread. What if we used the pellet shaped BB idea, but made it 8mm and hollow point? 8mm for ease of manufacturing (larger bb, theoretically less errors), and hollow point so it shatters on impact (force more spread out) but not in the barrel.

 

[awagg]

Hollow point does NOT break on impact. Hollow point is for less penetration on impact, but a greater release of the bullets kinetic energy. They also are less aerodynamic. Why do you bring this up? Also, if you know the industry, 8mm BB's have been produced less accurately than 6mm bb's, however this is probably due to less demand.

 

[sniperninja]

Well I thought since the bb is plastic that it would shatter instead of "fold back" like a real hollow point. And I find that strange that the 8mm bbs are produced less accurately, seems counter productive.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Yeah maybe but paintball guns have an energy of 11 joules. Somehow I don't think anything near that would be allowed to be used in many places.

The reason they are around 11 joules is because they are .68 cal (17.3mm) and their mass is huge as a result of size and the paint inside of them.

Here is a video:
(Personally I don't think this looks like 100yds. but thats what they are claiming, either way, you know that its pretty far if you've ever shot a paintball gun before.)

And all I meant by 8mm rounds is just supply and demand. Its hard enough to find an 8mm gun anymore, there aren't nearly as many manufacturers of 8mm ammo as there are of 6mm, and I can't imagine the quality is as high over all. Ive had issues with madbull BBs, I know some people swear by them, but in my guns they cant hit anything.

 

[inthetallgrass]

That would make an awesome BB.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

That would make an awesome BB.

That is the idea... however, I have a few modifications in mind for our applications. I'd like to try a boat tailed version and a concave version with a flared end similar to a pellet... this is all going to depend on when I can get a test platform set up.

 

[sniperninja]

Sooooooo many ideas, so little funds... I wish somebody could go to a machinist with a tin of pellets, those first strike rounds, and nerf darts. Ask them to make them in 6mm, 8mm, and 10mm with multiple copies of each. Then make molds of each and make bbs in the molds. Does anybody here have the skills and tools to make these? That would be AWESOME.

 

[becklr1]

Machining something round is tough.

Wait, what about a dimpled 8mm.

 

[roguewolf]

The only problem that I see with dimpled BB's is a loss of compression in the barrel. The dimples would allow quite a bit of air to slip around the BB. That's not to say that it shouldn't be attempted though. Maybe use a larger barrel and a sabot?

 

[inthetallgrass]

That would make an awesome BB.

That is the idea... however, I have a few modifications in mind for our applications. I'd like to try a boat tailed version and a concave version with a flared end similar to a pellet... this is all going to depend on when I can get a test platform set up.

So like a blade BB. Also don't start with the dimpled BB's again.

 

[inthetallgrass]

The only problem that I see with dimpled BB's is a loss of compression in the barrel. The dimples would allow quite a bit of air to slip around the BB. That's not to say that it shouldn't be attempted though. Maybe use a larger barrel and a sabot?

The dimples wouldn't affect or effect? it if they were spaced a good bit. As in there is always a full seal.

 

[becklr1]

Dimpled, I was kidding. It was sarcasm.