[The Builder]

In short, yes, I would do it.

Why:
Higher precision means less ammo needed.
I already do pre and post game work on my weapons I bring in.

Why Not:
I would avoid wanting to pay $5 per round every time i pull the trigger

Excellent ! That is the kind of input I need. The rounds wont be much more than what we spend now for high end BB's. The mold would be included with the rifle and the material to mold them is $25 per lb.

Paul

 

[The Builder]

I would definately do it. I only carry two 8-10 round magazines with me (mainly because they are REALLY expensive), but also to add to the realism effect. What sniper in real life will go around and have 90 rounds with them? None is the answer. Its not Battlefield 3 and there is no reason to hoard ammo.
Pros: It will help you choose your shots more wisely.
You could bring a simple 90 round speed loader.
Cons: If you DO run out of ammo, you're f*cked. Speed loaders sold for $3.00 will most likely break.

Thanks Bud. Before I forget, Aug 10th is a scenario game here in Gboro at PBC.

No speed loader needed. The rounds wont fit in a speedy.

Cat Shit One

 

[The Builder]

At 25 dollars for a pound of material, how many rounds are you expecting to make with them?

Would the mold be for at least 10 rounds & would you sell extras as well?

Would you provide the material or would you allow people to source their own?

With a different shaped round, how would it measure up for FPS tests? Would you beable to put a .2 gram bb through to prove you are meeting the standards?

I love the idea of it, it's implementing it into a cost effective, consistent and safe manner that concerns me!

Excellent questions and I will answer them and then hopefully you can give some input based on just the criteria I mentioned. I realize your questions are completely valid so I will give more detail.

The mold will make 10 per pour. material can be sourced anywhere someone chooses. The price I quoted is from a manufacturer I trust and it is the price they charge for the material. You could even use different densities of material to vary the weight of the round.

The rifle would still shoot 6mm BB's just for chrono purposes so we can prove to refs they are safe to play with.

The materials I have been looking at have a pretty low viscosity and will pour bubble free with very little effort. It doesn't out gas and a little tooth pick twirl would remove any bubbles from the pour.

1lb converted purely (not adding for waste) should yield 1500 rounds at .45g per round. They could be even lighter.

This has been in the note book for a while.

These would be purely for the rifle I am designing. There really is no way I can think of to load them in an existing rifle.

Before some one gets their drawers in a knot asking why this is in this forum. I put it here so I could collect the valuable information I need from my fellow snipers.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

We are getting off topic guys and getting into details that would be addressed down the road. We are getting way ahead of where the process is at this time.

I will say though that IF someone wished to do harm there are much easier way sof doing it than making an airsoft round designed to do so. barrel loading some sort of dart would be much easier to do.

Here is a pic of a round I quickly turned this morning. This is not as clean as they would be when molded.

It should be clear but it would be just the top portion.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

I would like to know what the rounds look like before I can make a in-depth comment.

I have concerns on this. Yes I am going to be that guy that is going to rain on this.

What FPS are the rounds designed for?
What is the shape of the round?
Are the rounds biodegradable?
Is hop-up going to be a factor or is that out the window?
What is the weight of the round?
Do the rounds shatter on impact?
Is the finished mold smooth or rough?
How hard are these rounds?
Will they break cheap protective eye wear?

I'm sorry to be that guys but it needs to be said. Seeing I play on a small field this is a major concern to me, it should be a concern for the rest of you as well. I value safety over performance.

You are not raining at all. You are getting ahead of the process and I did ask to comment on just the info provided. I am a bit insulted that you think I would not have addressed any of these issues. I will however answer your questions if only to show how sill they really are.

The rounds are designed for subsonic velocities since that is what we shoot.
The shape is not a criteria I listed but I did post a picture of what I have in mind.
No they are not Biodegradable. I HATE bio's they shatter.
Why are you asking about a hop, this is for a rifle I am designing and at no point did I mention a hop system
As I mentioned the weights can vary depending on the material chosen. I can say they will be very close to .3g
Why would I design a round that would shatter. The materials I am looking can handle 4500psi.
Smooth or rough mold...Seriously....why would the mold be rough?
The durometer of the round would not matter as the harness of the current BB's is such that they do not deform on impact.
Break eye wear.... come on that is an issue of KE or joules and has nothing to do with the round.

Plazma, I normally truly enjoy your posts so you must be ghaving a bad day to post something like this.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

Cool, we don't really have guys taking glass or metal on the field. I don't see an advantage to either one so it never even occurred to me.

If they use the wrong material to mold them they simply will be too light or too heavy and wont go anywhere. It is not all that easy to alter a gun to shoot hot at the field. If field owners are checking guns the way they should there should not be any issues at all.

Guys please read and consider this. We try very hard to make our airsoft weapons work to the best of their ability. It is my belief that we have reached the max of what we can do with a round ball. A couple of years back the First Strike rounds came out for PB and they were shunned by many fields AT First. There were stories made up to keep them from becoming too popular. The problem for the other folks was they worked, and worked well. The problem for the player was the cost. It may take some work to get them accepted everywhere but it may be worth it.

It it works like I think it would give us the much needed advantage we need and make our guns much more similar to their RS counterparts without sacrificing safety in any way at all. Of course the AEG folks will have a fit because they cannot use them but an M4 can't fire a 338 Magnum either.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

Sure you can cross post it to your UK forum. If it does work out as I hope it will be very nice.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

Yes I am having a really bad day. I had a very similar conversation shortly before posting, so I inadvertently word vomited that. It got pretty hot really fast. I also did not see your previous post to mine. The rage train was doing its thing.

The bio part, I understand the hate for bios, but the field I go to requires the use of bios. I got chewed out and thrown out of a game for it. I should have been thrown off the field for the day. Anyway back to the topic!

As far as the mold is concerned that I need to explain a little bit. By smooth I meant polished inside. Rough, a few finishing passes on a CNC or something along those lines. But seeing as you are The Builder, master of taking rubbish and turning it into awesome badassness. It wont be a problem. As far as the rest of it... Yeah I'm feeling a little ashamed about it.

I loved shooting the FS round when I played PB. Kind of a pain to load into a PowerFeed Classic Mag, I made it work though. I worked hard to get the fields down here to allow there use.

I have used plenty of weird things to get extra range out of a PB, Glue on fins, different shaped paintballs, crazy barrels, and so on. So far the FS round is for a better part the best solution. The only down side is they are freakin expensive! Also the shell is pretty sharp when it breaks. Every time I ever got shot by one it cut me up a little. I could hit people from 500 ft with enough break to count as an out, mind you I had to aim quite a bit above their heads but I could do it. Worth it in my book.

I personally think something similar in style will work the best. As its a known design and proven to work. I see some issues with a rifled barrel, but thats getting a little too far ahead in the design. Then again I have noticed that this community tends to over-think just about everything, not that its a bad thing.

Nice post Bud. We will see how it progresses but a rifled barrel may be just the ticket for this. Keep inmind we are talking about a pretty light projectile so even the air moving in a spiral pattern down the barrel may be enough to get the round spinning.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

The AEG folks should be worried. There will NEVER be a way to put these rounds in a aeg. As for safety I can easily make the nose more rounded and at subsonic velocities it will not effect performance.

I will not argue that there will be hurdles to overcome. In reality though most of the hurdles will come from folks who don't want to loose market share or loose the game they are playing.

With regards to firing RS rounds, there will be no springs and therefore no way to strike a primer.

On the subject of velocity, We are not after velocity as much as we are after consistency.

Like I said before there are much easier ways to make an airsoft gun do harm than to, modify a mold to make darts and then shoot them. Most people do not know where to get silica to use in a mold and anything that is too hot would simply ruin the mold.

I KNOW this can work. It will take some fine tuning to sort it all out but I am right on the edge of this being available. I am hoping the have a working model in a couple of weeks.

The barrel is sorted out and I have a stock in the shop now.

Paul

 

[The Builder]

This is one of the components of the rifle I am building from the ground up. I am designing a sniping system that will be field legal but separate us from the AEG's in a very distinctive way.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

From the previous posts, I assume you've already got a magazine prototype whipped up...but have you considered a cylindrical magazine? like a revolver, and the length of the ammo wont matter since you will have the nozzle cycling far enough back to chamber these longer rounds. basically make a .5in disk with holes drilled through for the rounds, and put o-rings on each end to hold the ammo into the mag...and you could incorporate an access port so you can load rounds into the cylinder while its in the gun. or, you know, just do what you've already got planned.

Great minds roam the same halls of the institution.....LOL That is exactly the direction this is going. The mags will come out though so a couple can easily be carried.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

I think the magazine will be spring fed , the side of the rounds will be pressing against the other as the bolt comes back the round will get loaded in. this is purely my thoughts based on P advising it is a round magazine. just like a tradtional straight magazine and they will be single stacked

ryan

WOW !!! I had not thought of that but that is very cool !!!! I had planned for the mag to rotate via a linkage from the bolt stroke. I like this even better. A simple spring mag in a circular form. We will see how it unfolds.

Now that I have two lathes in the shop I plan to have a working prototype in a couple of weeks.

I am seriously considering making the rounds more like FS PB rounds and having the barrel be smooth. This should help us gain acceptance at fields more quickly. They will be longer than the diameter unlike the FS rounds but still a round nose with a vaned skirt.

 

[The Builder]

They will be too long to feed into a standard rifle unless they are muzzle loaded.

I will sort out the mag system, there are a couple of decent options to play with.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

I will keep them as reasonable as possible. Just to be safe let's say $750 with three mags and the molds for the rounds.

I saw a comment on the thread from across the pond about the round not having the distance unless we jack the power or have a hop. I suggest they take a look at some of the videos on the FS PB rounds. That is a 3g projectile moving at 300flps. The videos I have seen have been quite impressive. Since this round will be more aerodynamic due to the length, moving faster and be lighter we should have incredible range.

I really hate that some folks are comparing this to using a pellet rifle. Most .25 pellet rifles are firing a pretty heavy pellet at over 900fps. I really hate the comparison.

I would bet that most of the detractors are shooting light BB's and believe in victory through the spray and prey method. I know this because I play with a guy just like this who shoots a large number of BB's and hates my guns.

CSO

Just to give an idea of why I believe in this
Tiberius T9.1 & First Strike Field Test (Part 1 of 2) - YouTube

 

[The Builder]

Concerns are a good thing!! If I have not considered the issue it helps me to do so and if I have I can share my thoughts with you. The round in the pic is indeed 6mm it is just shot in macro. The production rounds will be a hemisphere just like if it had a regular BB for the nose.

As cool as that video is keep in mind they are shooting UNDER 300fps with a 3g round. We will be shooting 400 or so with a .4g round. The ratios will also be quite different. A FS round as a length the same as the diameter. This is much less than ideal, I am looking at a 2 to 1 ratio or maybe more.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

I understand completely where you are coming from.

I guess by realism it was in reference to the range and accuracy. The bolt pull will be realistic in terms of fitting the round and not requiring gorilla like strength to pull back a monster spring.

In the real world there have been rifles designed around the specific bullet such as the .410. It is a single shot with no mag at all.

Maybe instead of realism I should have said it is purpose built. Some of the copies of RS weapons are so heavy I would never play with them. Then we have clones that are so poorly build a squirt gun would he more stout.

My goal with this project is to have a unique rifle purpose built to engage targets at long distances.

I don't believe this will remove the spirit of the game at all. It will force people to think of snipers the same way they are thought of in the real world. It will also force people to up their game a bit.

Even if the rifle can do what we hope the person behind the trigger still has to stay hidden, and make the shot without revealing their position.

Yes this will be a HPA powered gun and require a remote line. HPA is the only choice for this due to the consistency we want.

The aluminum for the engine and breech are due here today !!!

A box mag is not out of the question....I am looking at all the options.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

^

Maybe someone could pull such a thing off, weather it's The Builder, or someone who has the dimensions of the round... :yup:

I see how it is I am already getting cut out of my own idea....LOL, LOL Feels like home.....:shrug: I guess I will have to make the molds cost as much as a rifle.....LOL, LOL....

Getting a rifled barrel is not difficult at all. However it would be easier and more economical to go with a smooth bore barrel and put the fins on the rounds. This would make it possible for someone to make a kit to fit existing BAR's. I am not sure I would be bothered by this.

This is really exciting.

CSO

 

[The Builder]

I really appreciate you taking the time to print one and check it out. The final version will have air grooves so it spins. Did you happen to weigh the one you printed? I FINALLY got a barrel for you, it is boxed and headed usps in the morning.

I am hoping to get 10 aluminum plugs done on a CNC so I can make many many molds.

400fps is easily obtainable with a Revolution engine and is still well within safety margins (depending on the weight of the round)

As for the specifics of the gun itself I am looking at a couple of options but I can confirm it will not be a replica of any existing RS weapon. There is one design that resembles a RS weapon but it is by no means a dead on copy.

As far as what material to mold them out of, I will do a bunch of testing and make recommendations but ultimately people will choose what they like. There are plastics out there that cure quickly and cure with no bubbles. They are easy to work with and pretty reasonable in the long run.
Packy

 

[The Builder]

Guys, you have no idea how thrilled I am to see you guys getting behind this project.

The nose is going to be rounded just like a BB. If we can get to .5g they will cut through the wind and track VERY well.

If things go well I will have two guns ready for Fulda !!!!

Packy