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Which AEG for next DMR project.

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4.6K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  silentball  
#1 ·
Hey guys,
I am playing with the idea of my next AEG for my DMR project (to most likely loan to my spotter) and I am stuck between two manufacturers, VFC and KWA. Let me know which one you guys would pick.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Well unless I've been looking in the wrong spot, their base line m4's are around $280-$300 that is vfc and g&p pricing.. From what I have been reading G&P's are what I'm looking for.. I don't mind upgrading some internals but I just don't want to mess to much with the gearbox -_- bad memories.
 
#10 · (Edited)
From what I saw on evike vfc's are 380+ minus the one or two guns which are E series.
G&Ps on the other hand are low 300s.

If you have a lot of trouble I'm located little more then a stones throw away and have built a dmr or two in the past.

Off topic I see you're in MD. What group are you a part of? Our team travels across the bay frequently to play so there is a good chance I've already played with you if you have done any bit of traveling to any ops such as the ones hosted by SoG.
 
#11 ·
Yeah I was looking at the E-series, something cheap that I can gut and not feel extremely bad about.


Offtopic:Well I actually can't say I've been to any Ops although I want to. The guys I play with are pretty much some friends that play at my farm. My competition group, Phantom 1. We just started with the plans of participating in some fields like "paintball sports land" and the CQB place in rockville. Always looking for some big fields to attend.
 
#12 ·
I saw this as a potential platform - G&G Gas Raider M4 $149 I had a chance to check one out, it has very good gas rationing as well as a realistic recoil. Plus it's 90$ TM compatible.
 
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#14 ·
I'll be the devil's advocate and say G&P internals are ... lemony. You have to make sure your G&P parts are the newest generation of parts.

I had a reinforced gearbox... a piece of the hole for the trigger actual broke off while I was putting together the gearbox. It basically rendering the entire gearbox useless.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Not voting for good reasons.

1. KWA is s**t; not worth money to anyone who is experienced in airsoft. Read a little on airsoft-mechanics to know why(basically: it is nightmare to upgrade in comparison to G&P/VFC/JG; have mediocre externals; does not have good enough internals, JG enhanced version beats it in just about every way...etc.)

2. VFC is good choice but so is G&P. VFC has a little more bells and whistles in form of working bolt catch. I would gut both(except maybe gearbox) when building DMR. You can drop in entire set of stock JG internals(with neo magnet motor) if you want; it can pull anything field-legal at decent rate of fire with stock 18:1 ratio gears.

3. I rather just get a RealSword SVD, put in prometheus barrel + r-hop + m-nub + neo magnet can and call it a day. And that is exactly what I did. :D

To build a decent DMR; you need to mess with gearbox; at least shim(starting from bevel) and correct AOE, make sure airseal is perfect, radius front of cylinder window...etc. All of that will have to happen or that so-called DMR is not going to perform any better than regular everyday poorly-upgraded aeg.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I wouldn't drop stock jg internals into a vfc or g&p. I'm not saying go buy $80 gears or anything like that, but I prefer shs to JG and they cost only slightly more if not the same . JG neo motors are also slow as poop unless you are using a high voltage battery (not many people are willing to use 11.1/14.8 lipos). Not only that they're a pain to find in stock.

KWA also is a gun which is geared toward people who don't upgrade. They shoot at field limits out of the box and the cqr shoots at cqb limits out of the box and is geared towards being budgeted.
^That being said they can be upgraded. I don't necessarily prefer the AIM brand but the gears do fit the 2gx gearbox along with the full rack piston. They'll put out at least 450 reliably if not more.


The RS svd is good... If you have the $590 + money for a posp style scope.
 
#17 · (Edited)
goldentrigun said:
I wouldn't drop stock jg internals into a vfc or g&p. I'm not saying go buy $80 gears or anything like that, but I prefer shs to JG and they cost only slightly more if not the same . JG neo motors are also slow as poop unless you are using a high voltage battery (not many people are willing to use 11.1/14.8 lipos). Not only that they're a pain to find in stock.

KWA also is a gun which is geared toward people who don't upgrade. They shoot at field limits out of the box and the cqr shoots at cqb limits out of the box and is geared towards being budgeted.
^That being said they can be upgraded. I don't necessarily prefer the AIM brand but the gears do fit the 2gx gearbox along with the full rack piston. They'll put out at least 450 reliably if not more.

The RS svd is good... If you have the $590 + money for a posp style scope.
Click to expand...
JG full gearbox is for people who do not want to upgrade(one package with most parts being useful/compatible). I suggest it if someone really have no idea what works; JG works.
JG neo magnet motor is easy to find on ASM for about $20.
They are great because they are actual high torque motors(20+tpa) instead of wannabe-magnums(~16tpa). I run with 32tpa Dboys armature in neo magnet can, by the way. All you need is lower ratio gears. Point of going with ubertorque is obvious: I do not want motor to become hand-warmer any time soon. *cough*SHS*cough*

Also, you better be running giant 11.1v lipo brick if using some sort of Ar15/M14-based airsoft DMR; for trigger response as well as capacity.

KWA is not for people who do not want to upgrade; they have horrible self-shimming and wrong AOE last time I had "pleasure" to work on a broken KWA(bevel gear got eaten up by Matrix "magnum" motor).
KWA is for people who wants to desperately believe they do not need upgrade(in reality, they obviously do).
AIM is one of worst brand of "upgrade" parts ever? I have hard time deciding which brand of piston is worse: kwa or aim(metal rack with poor support = cave in and die).

Actually, RealSword SVD without upgrade is pretty bad internally; trigger response is slow even with good 11.1v stick(only thing that fits) and accuracy is not all that awesome. If it was so good then I would not be upgrading. But externals are well worth it; it can also mount bayonet for some long-range stabbing. Mostly, I wish it had lower ratio gears but obviously that would not work so well with stock motor.
 
#18 ·
Let me expand a bit on what I'm looking for, I want to get an AEG for the purpose of upgrading to a DMR. I would prefer something that is super accurate and long range out of the box but that is not usually the case. From my experience (Not that I am all knowing) I have heard a lot of bragging from vfc and kwa, but I am completely open to suggestions.
 
#25 · (Edited)
rcon112 said:
Let me expand a bit on what I'm looking for, I want to get an AEG for the purpose of upgrading to a DMR. I would prefer something that is super accurate and long range out of the box but that is not usually the case. From my experience (Not that I am all knowing) I have heard a lot of bragging from vfc and kwa, but I am completely open to suggestions.
Click to expand...
You already know super accurate and long range (if you are talking about at least over 100m accurate) is not going to happen in out of box AEG.

So, VFC vs. KWA.

KWA is overhyped and only bragged about by people who NEVER open their guns(which means they have zero idea what they are talking about when they say anything about performance/reliability).

VFC is actually decent(not that I would keep any internals). ;)

I already hinted at what you might need for range/accuracy when I mentioned RealSword SVD(prometheus barrel, 6.03mm preferrably since the are steel, R-hop, M-nub or eraser). Only other things you need would be air nozzle that seals perfectly, some pfte tape on cylinder head's o-ring, correct AOE, re-shim(starting with bevel gear for obvious reasons), and get a motor with neodymium magnet(high torque, of course).

Not sure why people have trouble with ARL; I just put a tiny screw driver over it and press that down with a book.
---------------
goldentrigun said:
I never said anything on any part of shs's line in particular. So saying I endorsed the shs motor over the jg motor is just putting words into my mouth when in fact I said nothing about it.
I didn't realize anyone cared if their hand is a little warm after a 10 minute engagement.
Click to expand...
1. I did not say you endorsed SHS. Actually, you say JG is slow but compared to what? Shs? Anything else with similar neodymium magnet and same tpa will perform similarly; I put in SHS as example.
2. Less warm = less energy wasted = longer battery life...etc. Obvious, right?
I did not put word into your mouth.
goldentrigun said:
ASM isn't a retail website so saying you can find them on there for 20 is a moot point.
Click to expand...
No, it is not; except you ignored part that there are people reselling(after buying in bulk) SHS parts, as well as fact that you can find JG blue on sale in probably half of those sales threads.
goldentrigun said:
As for your KWA experience. Every brand has it's lemons. It could also be due to the fact that they were using the matrix magnum motor and the pinion didn't mesh. It could also be because the motor grip they were using had a bad angle. It could ALSO be the fact that the motor adjustment height wasn't properly set.
Click to expand...
It could; but then again that shows that matrix magnum motor pinion is stronger than KWA gears(because pinion was okay when I checked).
goldentrigun said:
The fact is that MOST airsoft players do not want to open their guns and upgrade them. If they do a lot of times they can't get it back together.
Click to expand...
Not sure how "most airsoft players" matter; because obviously they do not know anything/are too ignorant to learn. Not to mention there are better choices than KWA for something that works well without ever worked on.
goldentrigun said:
I never said AIM was good as a brand.
Click to expand...
You suggested that AIM fits into KWA as upgrade part; it is not upgrade if it sucks.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I never said anything on any part of shs's line in particular. So saying I endorsed the shs motor over the jg motor is just putting words into my mouth when in fact I said nothing about it.
I didn't realize anyone cared if their hand is a little warm after a 10 minute engagement.


ASM isn't a retail website so saying you can find them on there for 20 is a moot point.

As for your KWA experience. Every brand has it's lemons. It could also be due to the fact that they were using the matrix magnum motor and the pinion didn't mesh. It could also be because the motor grip they were using had a bad angle. It could ALSO be the fact that the motor adjustment height wasn't properly set.

The fact is that MOST airsoft players do not want to open their guns and upgrade them. If they do a lot of times they can't get it back together.

I never said AIM was good as a brand.

You're taking this off topic. I'm not saying any more about it.

ontopic:
What is your budget and what length/type gun do you prefer?
Whatever gun you get I recommend at least getting a prommy barrel and dropping a r-hop into it. It doesn't have to be super high fps in order to be a DMR. You just need a gun which is more accurate and has a farther range then a standard AEG. If you are unsatisfied after setting up the barrel and hop up I would look into fiddling with the gearbox.
 
#20 ·
My budget would most likely cap around.. oh I don't know around $500-$600, I at first was thinking along the lines of a carbine length m4, but I would be fine moving to an m16 length because I don't know how accurate I can make the shorter barrel for long shots(Although that is really my job being the sniper, and my spotter running security). I was planning on obviously swapping out barrel and bucking and doing an r-hop at some point. I'm not opposed to opening gearboxes but It's not a big deal, I've just had some "fun" experiences fixing a few Echo1 gearboxes where the cursed Anti-reversal latch wouldn't stay in place requiring near 3 people to put it back together.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I've had some creative ways in making them staying in place until you close the gun. One of which involved magnets. That is what an AR latch does. It makes your guns more difficult to close. I honestly bought another AR latch because it makes my gun easier to close and I now have the option to release spring tension if it was for some reason left half cocked.

As for barrel length I would make put it between 450 and 509mm. Although there is a lot of talk now about short barreled rifles. Although short barreled m4's just plain look funny.
 
#22 ·
#23 · (Edited)
363 is 14", 405 is 16", while 455 is 18". Carbine length guns are 14".
^ Direct conversions
That is the same gun I purchased when I first got into airsoft. The AOE needs to be corrected but other then that as a stock gun I like it. Although now the only thing left stock on that gun is the receiver, motor grip, and front sight.

I personally would get this:
http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_44_219&products_id=28702
Although I like full stocks on DMR type rifles.

^Both guns are wired to deans if you don't already use deans on your charger you might want to think about getting some deans plugs for your batteries or getting an adapter. I would stick with deans though they have a lower resistance then tamiya plugs and are easier to use.
 
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