[Sodium]

Heavy BBs and slow BBs seem to “float” out to their targets, making it seem as if they reach target slower. This is because they have one thing in common: consistent speed. Slow BBs obviously do reach their targets slower. Heavy BBs do not.

Ex: if BB A travels at a consistent speed, it will appear slower than BB C, which travels at twice the speed for the first part of it’s flight, and half the speed for the second part of it’s flight. BB C loses it’s speed exponentially faster than BB A, but for the first part of it‘s flight (the part we see the easiest) it appears to be much faster.

I’ll also add that I dodge .20g BBs regularly, not just heavies shot by snipers/DMRs. The “spray and duck” routine is common at my field.

A good sniper shoots from unseen positions. They shouldn't even be looking for your bb to dodge.

 

[Leo Greer]

A good sniper shoots from unseen positions. They shouldn't even be looking for your bb to dodge.

I never said they were good.

…had a field regular show up at the field recently with a new “HPA DMR” he claimed could “shoot farther than any gun on the field”. Well, I don’t know about farther, but it sure as heck was louder!

 

[Pretzel]

I never said they were good.

…had a field regular show up at the field recently with a new “HPA DMR” he claimed could “shoot farther than any gun on the field”. Well, I don’t know about farther, but it sure as heck was louder!

Put an amp on a gun so over volumed they cant tell where the shot is coming from because everything is just noise, ez!

(Apparently someone did that on a "high" joule HPA and the amp they were using caused a weird pressure wave that bisected the BBs they were shooting, which were kinda crumbly... And every shot shattered like an inch from the muzzle because of it. Apparently it was a bear to diagnose why the BBs were breaking... I think that was on Airsoft Mechanics so unfortunately that post is gone to time.)

 

[Leo Greer]

Put an amp on a gun so over volumed they cant tell where the shot is coming from because everything is just noise, ez!

(Apparently someone did that on a "high" joule HPA and the amp they were using caused a weird pressure wave that bisected the BBs they were shooting, which were kinda crumbly... And every shot shattered like an inch from the muzzle because of it. Apparently it was a bear to diagnose why the BBs were breaking... I think that was on Airsoft Mechanics so unfortunately that post is gone to time.)

Why of course! If it’s loud enough it’ll pop people’s eardrums and then they’ll never hear where your shots are coming from.

That sounds like a very interesting video to watch. Sounds to me like they were using brittle/harder than normal BB—when sound waves vibrate at a material’s sonic frequency, it actually creates a ”building“ effect where the vibrating object gains more energy with each reverberation instead of just vibrating. Sounds like that amp did just that. (Look up “galloping Gertie” I think it was called? It was a bridge built back before folks understood this that actually began swaying when the wind blew because of vibration. Eventually the swaying built up to enough strength that it destroyed the bridge outright.) This is similar to glass breaking under high pitch, but glass breaks because of instantaneous material distortion, rather than energy built up over time. This can happen with very low frequencies.

 

[Mosin91/69]

Any info on what degree hardness the hop up bucking is?

SSG10 Full Thrust Bucking – Novritsch | Airsoft

us.novritsch.com

 

[Jbrinker1]

I kinda think this is a pretty cool idea and pretty reasonably priced alternative to ceramics.

I have no problems with this system except people trying to cheat the chrono.
Here is one such issue I have had with them.
So on the larger diameter bbs, someone was trying to tell me that the chrono differently and you need a "special" chrono to accurately read the bigger bbs. My understanding of chrono graphs is they use two photodiode to detect the time it took to pass between the two via sensing the drop in light (this would be from the front of the bb). Based on the time and fixed distance it calculates the velocity. In no way can I see that diameter would mater. Am I missing something?

This is based off of someone bringing one to an event which the limit is 1.9j and the gun was chronoing at 3j and his buddy that sold it to him was trying to convince me to let him use it because my chrono doesn't have a "6.44mm bb" setting. My gut feeling is he thought I would let him chrono with the regular 6mm event bbs and it probably would have passed.

 

[Masada]

I kinda think this is a pretty cool idea and pretty reasonably priced alternative to ceramics.

I have no problems with this system except people trying to cheat the chrono.
Here is one such issue I have had with them.
So on the larger diameter bbs, someone was trying to tell me that the chrono differently and you need a "special" chrono to accurately read the bigger bbs. My understanding of chrono graphs is they use two photodiode to detect the time it took to pass between the two via sensing the drop in light (this would be from the front of the bb). Based on the time and fixed distance it calculates the velocity. In no way can I see that diameter would mater. Am I missing something?

This is based off of someone bringing one to an event which the limit is 1.9j and the gun was chronoing at 3j and his buddy that sold it to him was trying to convince me to let him use it because my chrono doesn't have a "6.44mm bb" setting. My gut feeling is he thought I would let him chrono with the regular 6mm event bbs and it probably would have passed.

You have it right. The chrono doesn't care about the size of the bb. I bet if you chrono'd that thing with 6mm bbs it would have passed, which is exactly what I don't like about the full thrust system. Most chrono stations give you bbs to use, so if it's a full thrust you can easily hide a much higher energy output than would be allowed. I'm sure the system performs great, but our society normally functions on the lowest common denominator, and there's always those few people that don't care about our sport and do things that bring it down for the rest of us.

 

[Leo Greer]

You can chrono anything. It doesn’t have to be a BB. You input the weight, the chrono measure the FPS and calculates joules. For example, I have chronoed real bullets before.

 

[Plazmaburn]

That dipshit was clearly trying to cheat. Most of the chronographs today will let you change the bb size. Hell even my Matrix chronograph has that. (Its actually really good, has a Bluetooth app.)

The size does play a little bit into it, but not as much.

 

[Jbrinker1]

You have it right. The chrono doesn't care about the size of the bb. I bet if you chrono'd that thing with 6mm bbs it would have passed, which is exactly what I don't like about the full thrust system. Most chrono stations give you bbs to use, so if it's a full thrust you can easily hide a much higher energy output than would be allowed. I'm sure the system performs great, but our society normally functions on the lowest common denominator, and there's always those few people that don't care about our sport and do things that bring it down for the rest of us.

This is what I was thinking. I wouldn't even mind allowing the FT a slightly higher energy cap if it was proven to be safer (theoretically should be and nov touts that it is) and insurance allows it, but there would need to be a way to identify these. The only way I knew is the young man told me. Maybe that is the answer is we got to be checking for this with a probe (standard cleaning rod maybe). Makes getting people through chrono take longer.

You can chrono anything. It doesn’t have to be a BB. You input the weight, the chrono measure the FPS and calculates joules. For example, I have chronoed real bullets before.

I have chronoed RS guns as well thru my prochrony. I did not think airsoft handheld chronographs worked any different but was willing to be corrected.

That dipshit was clearly trying to cheat. Most of the chronographs today will let you change the bb size. Hell even my Matrix chronograph has that. (Its actually really good, has a Bluetooth app.)

The size does play a little bit into it, but not as much.

The guy who owned the gun was pretty cool about the whole thing and did tell me that it was a full thrust gun. He seemed to know it probably would not pass and made no qualms when I told him he couldn't use it. The guy who sold it to him was the one who was making a slight fuss over it. I don't know if his statement was that bb size mattered was in fact a statement to let him cheat using standard 6mm ammo, or due to the larger diameter I need to let him have a higher joule limit (which would be dumb as that is crazy difference power), or just ignorance of how chronographs work. I really want to believe the latter. His statement was bothering me though and was hoping maybe the handhelds worked a little differently (like measuring from first entry to last exit) and that his intentions were pure.

So plaz, when you change bb size on your chrono, given the same gun, power, and bb, does the chronograph give you slightly different readings? Trying to figure out why they would even have his feature unless it was more for data logging or it calculates power/area or something.

 

[Leo Greer]

Pretty sure it’s usually by weight and not by size, though Plazma may have a shmancy one.

 

[Plazmaburn]

I have not played with that part all that much. I have one set for 8mm. Guess I could go dink around with it for a bit and see if it changes anything.

 

[PixelBoar]

Heavier bbs actually reach targets at range faster. This is because they lose less speed over time, going faster for most of their travel. Check out this link to see mathematical proof: airsoft trajectory project

This was very interesting! I think that I was equating “heavy” with “slow” in my previous statement because I imagine putting in this Full Thrust system would make it slower without compensating for it with a heavier spring (which I imagine is where legality and fairness start becoming an issue).
That being said, this thread made me binge watch/read reviews of this system. Gotta say, much as I love Novritsch, I’m just not seeing anything groundbreaking with this. Would love to see one of the more scientificYouTube channels put this system through its paces, In a controlled environment and with a comparable BASR shooting .45+ bbs.

 

[Doctor Jest]

I dont really see it picking up much. It's going to end up like 8mm airsoft. It exists with little support.

A lot of 8mm was pure ass tho my dude. BB tolerances were all over the place, the designs were....niche....to say the least.....I shot a few back in the day and my lord, they were terrible.

I'm intrigued by FULL THRUST (lol) but I wouldn't buy one.

 

[Masinmees]

I would like to see someone do in dept comparison normal setup vs full thrust. Under someone I mean somebody independent who isn't novi paid actor.

 

[SiliconeSword]

I'm out, I was a little pressured into that Matrix Falcon, but not again lol

 

[T4nkcommander]

I would like to see someone do in dept comparison normal setup vs full thrust. Under someone I mean somebody independent who isn't novi paid actor.

Think I might pick it up for my birthday next month...if I do, I'll definitely do a video on it versus my SSG10 with regular bbs.

 

[Doctor Jest]

I'm out, I was a little pressured into that Matrix Falcon, but not again lol

I was all set to get one but shipping is a bitch. You definitely found a sleeper gun.....

 

[Doctor Jest]

My local field full stop banned FT, and CO2 as well as HPA.......but in truth, I'm not in the least bit surprised. There are always issues arising from players being dicks, even under scrutiny, so they're simply making life easier for themselves rather than dealing with people cheating tournament locks or building JC replicas...

 

[Doctor Jest]

So.....just watched Swamp Sniper shill his way through a recommendation and had to stop directly after he said "I saw SSG24s making more of an impact on games than any other sniper rifle".......I'm sure you can see the problem I might have with anything that comes out of his mouth afterward. All that hyperbole aside:

The extra weight will, incontrovertibly, have an effect on inertia which translates to a trifle more range........at 2.5j that's around 3 or 4m extra compared to a .48g at the same power. It's hard to quantify the effect of the added weight in combating wind as of course, the cross-section is larger than a standard 6mm giving it more surface area to be affected. You will need to apply more hop to provide (for an equivalent trajectory) an adequate Magnus effect, which translates to lost energy and directly impacts how much extra range you could enjoy in real terms.

It's one of those systems that would benefit from a high FPS allowance where the benefits become much more noticeable, but over here at least I can't see the point. For science, I'd love to try it with a bore-up cylinder and honking great spring to see what results I might get but otherwise it's not for me.